regional saw and bar size preferences

[Native Cutter]

Hello folks, my first post here. I was raised using chainsaws, for firewood, work around the ranch, and professionally but had not really had any exposure to the way folks do it in other parts of the country until researching saw stuff online a year or so ago.  Interesting to note the differences
Around here as far as professional use of saws there are a few common classes,
-brushing saws run 24"-28" bars mostly with a few guys running 32"s. Saws running from 45-65cc  most common, + a number of 70ccs (272/372 and 044/440)with those long bars.

-logging saws, most fallers runnin 80+ ccs, maybe with a smaller 70cc class saws for backup, stripping bark, small timber etc. These all are running 32" bars on the smallest side, 36's common and 42's all the time too, just depends on the wood and the faller. 

-then ur climbing saws which are the same as everyone elses, or much bigger depending on the job at hand. I Worked with one well known climber who only used an 036, 28" bar i think, it wasnt a 32.

For wood cuttin saws Id say most folks use a 24-28 for cutting wood but plenty have big saws and long bars as well, depends on what they like. Ive rarely heard of anyone putting a smaller bar on a big saw to cut smaller wood, we go bigger, but as an example, Ive never seen a 20" bar on a saw bigger than 55ish cc outside of a sawshop.

I would venture to say that as a saw using culture, the folks from my area prefer a saw with a little more weight out front and with a lil reach.

What do folks use in your part of the world?

[HolmenTree]

Welcome  to Forestry Forum Native Cutter.
Here's  my main stable of work saws 14", 16", 18", 24", 28" in order.
I don't  have a pic of my 395XP -32" though.


  

  

  

  

 

[ZeroJunk]

Depends on the wood you are cutting. Ninety percent of what I cut is red oak and an 036 will not do much with a 28 inch bar buried in that. Of course some guys don't like to bend over and they may use the length for that rather than burying the whole bar in something.

[HolmenTree]

Yes I do have  one of the  395XP -32" ;D


 

[Native Cutter]

Thats a nice lil group of saw there sir. You have the perfect tool for about every job I imagine!   Holmen Tree Ive read many of your posts and respect your wealth of knowledge and experience.

Zero Junk, I completely agree, the wood determines the tool Needed.  Around here hardwoods arent harvested commercially unless we mean for firewood vendors. But if I was to go to work cutting hardwood bigger than 28" for a livinn A 036 wouldnt be my first or 5th choice. Lol. 390xp with a 32 or 36 would be more like it.

I should clarify, when I say brushing, I mean by contractors not outfits where you get ur 40 and go home. There was a huge reforestation industry around here for quite a while and it definitely shows in saw choices. Cutting for production is just too hard with a short bar, too hard on the back reaching all the time. A 24/28 allows the cutter to cut way more with less body strain than a short 20" bar. Ive done it both ways and thats what Ive found.
So the wood cut and the manner in which the job needs to be done are big ones to consider.

With logging, those machines that limb and buck,  never saw one inland here, maybe on the coast. Anyways, fallers here do their own limbing and bucking too so that affects the tool needed. Bucking big conifers on such steep ground would be deadly if ur bar was too short for the job at hand.
I would guess that if a guy didnt have to limb and buck you could get by with a smaller rig?  Yes, no?

[HolmenTree]

Handfalling and bucking big timber on steep ground calls for a longer b/c. Higher stumps, no back chaining, limbing while walking on the stem with caulk boots ( because the ground is too uneven and too much underbrush under the felled tree to limb it from the side)

I've  seen underbrush so thick in the PNW that you need a long bar just to properly  be able to clear an escape route from your tree.
Here's  a good story how demanding this kind of timber falling was when the Husqvarna  2100 was introduced  on the PNW coast in the mid 1970's.


  

  

 

[Pine Ridge]

I am in southwest missouri, most loggers here run 20" bars. I run 20" on my 372s, i have a 28" in the truck toolbox if i need it. I have a 550 xp that i run a 16" bar on, use it for firewood and cutting roads. The only one on this forum that i know personally is cx3, but i'm like you in that i enjoy reading posts from holmentree and many others on here.

[HolmenTree]

Pine Ridge I'm  in the same league as you. When I logged here  on flat ground Manitoba , 20" b/c was the standard size on a 70cc to 85cc saw. Small pulpwood 18",  stands of old growth  spruce we used 24" but that wasn't  all that often.....or we would have gotten spoiled  :D

[Pine Ridge]

Holmentree a 20" is pretty much standard here , i  ran a 24" on an 064 that i bought new sometime around 1990, i never did get comfortable with it, i was used to a 20" , and i ended up putting a 20" on it. I sure got in alot of sharpening practice though, as that extra 4" was always in the dirt !

[Native Cutter]

HT thats a neat little article. I like the pic of him cuttin that jack seat.  You forgot to mention the fact that you cant limb a tree a foot taller than you are while standing beside it!

Where were you in the pacific northwest?

Ok, so when you have these shorter bars on these saws, say anything bigger than 65 cc, what do you feel the power differences are?  If the bar is 20 and your tree is around the same what would make you chose a 064 over a 044, or a 390 over a 372?

[Native Cutter]

I forgot to thank you for the welcome! Appreciate it.

[celliott]

Short bar northeast here. A 20" bar is about standard in the woods here, not many trees you can't cut with a 20" and a bit of work.

I have 20" on my 70cc saws, 24" on my 385xp. I do have a 395 with a 32" I mill with. Tried the 24" on it once, can't say it was any faster than the 385.
I also have a 357xp and a jonsered 2260 and I run 16" bars on them. Very fast in softwood and smaller hardwoods.
You talk about the reach of a long bar, personally I'd rather use the lightweight 2260 and 16" and use good body mechanics to bend and reach, especially for limbing.
Also you never see wrap handlebars here unless it's a special case or an enthusiast. They add weight and you can't cut as low.
Like you said, regional differences. Terrain and timber is a lot different here.

[thecfarm]

Native Cutter,welcome to the forum.
Most saws around here are set up with a 20 inch bar. I only cut on my land and just for my own use. I run a 18 inch bar on a 372 husky. I do have a big saw with a 28 inch bar on it. I did have some good some white pine on my land.

[luvmexfood]

When I was looking for a new saw last fall at one Stihl dealer I mentioned I might want a 24" bar. They looked at me like I was crazy. Said they only new one person that ran a bar that long. Still wouldn't mind having one for the ocassional larger tree.

[ZeroJunk]

Native Cutter,welcome to the forum.
Most saws around here are set up with a 20 inch bar. I only cut on my land and just for my own use. I run a 18 inch bar on a 372 husky. I do have a big saw with a 28 inch bar on it. I did have some good some white pine on my land.

I would think that is overwhelmingly the case everywhere except the PNW in North America anyway. But, there are plenty of huge oaks etc. around old home places and fence lines that get blown over or die. So, a big saw is a necessity as well if you don't want to pay a pro.

[Native Cutter]

Thanks for the replies , this is very informative.

Celliot touched on a point that is sorta what I been wondering, the big 94cc saw not being any faster with same bar size as the 85cc saw. In that case I believe the 394/5 is simply a slower saw already am I right?  So in general what is the greatest reason any of you folks would personally pic say a. 064 or a 390 (15.5 lb) saw over a 044/440 or 372 (13.5 lb) saw with 20" bar? 

But whats seems to the big difference is in this area, and I am in the PNW,  is that here bar size seems to be in direct correlation to saw size. Which also translates to something like -if a 20" bar is good for the wood size then Ill use a smaller saw with it as well. I think that is based on the fact that chainsaws first came into usage here with logging of great big trees and no matter how big a saw they never cut that fast thru a umpteen foot redwood or  a 5 foot doug fir which is the norm now. So its just accepted, and it permeates all thru the saw culture here.

  Celliot, when i say reach for limbing I mean on big old growth conifers that may be laying in places where you never want to be on the downhill side so you limb em from the top. And on the brushing aspect, im talkin commercial cutting for production, contract work, its almost always crazy thick brush in all sorts of bad ground, Pre Commercial Thin and Release,  anyways, if you cant cut 1/4 acre in 5.5 hrs including lunch And breaks then ur fired or making bottom rung wages. In that light there is simply no way to cut very fast with a lil bitty bar.   But I agree with you, sometimes when Im clearing land for my own reasons, after i brush it Ill go back and flush my stobs with my lil saw, a 45cc with 18".

This is cool, learning how its done in all these diff areas, very eye opening!

[ZeroJunk]

While it is true that to a point a 94cc saw may not pull a short chain any faster with identical sprockets a lot of people who use big power heads with shorter bars go to an 8 pin instead of a 7, etc. At some point the more powerful saw will win out.

[Pine Ridge]

Nativecutter i use 372s over 390s just because of personal preference, they cut good with enough power, are lighter, and feel balanced very well. In no way bashing 390s, they are very good saws, i ran one alot at the road department where i work, its just my preference. I've also owned two 044s and the 064, with 20" bars, the 044s were both very good with lots of power, the 064 was a real ripper with more power than them though. Of course though its a larger cc saw too. If stihl still made 064s new like the one i had i'd buy one, never gave me any trouble and ran and handled great.

[Hitchcock Woods]

South Carolina here,

We in the South East don't really have "logging" saws because we live in the land of the pine my friend.  In the coastal plain from Alabama to North Carolina, logging operations are done with feller/bunchers.  Hell most logging outfits don't even have but one or two guys who can even run a saw, and their insurance doesn't like them using them either.  As far as firewood saws go (red/white oak mostly) it's 20'' or 25'' bar with at least a 60-70cc Stihl or Husqvarna running it.  My"signature" at the bottom has a list of personal saws that we use for clearing trails, felling snags and dangerous trees, limbing, and firewood.

[Hitchcock Woods]

Side note,
I do know a guy pulling bald cypress logs out of the Waccamaw river near Myrtle Beach, SC that were cut in the late 1800's.  He had to buy a 3120 xp husqavarna with a 72'' bar (120cc)  !!  He said it takes 2 men to operate it.  They are bucking and milling logs that are +400 years old and +50'' dbh.  This is of course is not normal.

[Native Cutter]

Zero Junk good point, the 8tooth sprockets are game changers for sure. I overlooked that aspect earlier.  A lot of brush cutters ran em on their saws, my dad used a 8 tooth on a 257 with 28" and was one of the best around, his better cutter and foreman used a 272 with 8 tooth and a 32, but he is also 6'2 so it fit him about the same. Those saws ripped! Them two guys taught me how to cut and to work hard, always.      Ps both them saws were set up for cutting brush, not trees, the 8tooths sorta suck when using long bars on bigger wood lol

Pine Ridge I agree, the 372 size is much nice to handle when ya dont need a bigger one. 2Lb diff on the powerhead adds up over the day dont it?  :D

Hitchcock Woods, Im with ya there, a mid 60's cc saw with a 24/25 can do a  lot of work and is a very versatile rig. 70 cc's get bigger bars but we're close

Somebody mentioned wrap handles, theyre really never used on brushing saws here because they get caught on everything, plus the weight and dont allow low cuts as mentioned. But for firewood and logging, theyre awesome arent they.

[Native Cutter]

Hitchcock Woods that reminds of of a story.

One of my best friends was swampin for his uncle the summer of his senior year in high school. They were fallin old growth fir, spruce, POC and hemlock with some residual old growth redwoods thrown in.  As usual, steep nasty, brush filled ground. Well they get to this big redwood on the lower part of the long deep unit and uncle says, ima get the jacks ready go grab me that bigger saw ok.

So Rock heads back to near the top of the unit wayyyy up the hill, and grabs the 3120 or if there was a 1996 equivalent with a 6' bar and head back down. He is climbing over huge logs, rocks, sliding down banks and thru slash half the time. He almost died when he nearly landed on a sharp stob that woulda went right thru him as he fell off a log. He gets back to the base of the tree, drenched in sweat and wore out and his uncle stops fiddlin with the Silveys, looks up and says "Aww (admin edit) didnt mean THAT one Si"
Rock bout dies, points to it and says instantly (admin edit)

[HolmenTree]

HT thats a neat little article. I like the pic of him cuttin that jack seat.  You forgot to mention the fact that you cant limb a tree a foot taller than you are while standing beside it!

Where were you in the pacific northwest?

Ok, so when you have these shorter bars on these saws, say anything bigger than 65 cc, what do you feel the power differences are?  If the bar is 20 and your tree is around the same what would make you chose a 064 over a 044, or a 390 over a 372?

I competed in timbersport competitions on northern Vancouver Island in the late 1980's, and ran into an old logging partner there who got a union job as a timber faller.
I got a photo of him laying inside the face cut of a 15 ft diameter red cedar he was falling, 48,000 board ft in that one tree. I'll post the pic now that I now have my new laptop,just give me a few days.
When I was a faller in the late '80s early 90's I felled for 2 skidders, then before the bunchers and processors came in I was falling for a large Clarke grapple skidder.
It took a Stihl 064 with a 18"-20" b/c to keep ahead of them and I had to limb and top the tree length too. But they they helped out by back blading the trees limbs which speeded up production nicely.
All white spruce and jack pine, biggest sized stands here in Manitoba 100-110ft. 24-36"
But majority was half that size, but tight spaced and almost always tabletop flat ground.

[sawguy21]

When I started in a Stihl shop in south central B.C. in the mid 70's a lot of the local fallers were running 051's with a 25" bar, I learned later that those 89cc brutes were overkill, an 045 Super would have been plenty.  ;D Some areas with big cedar required 075's and 090's with 36" bars but they were the exception. The helilogging fallers I last worked with ran 272's and 038's with 24" bars due to weight on extremely steep ground, they were working in softwood almost no hardwood harvesting here. I have been out of logging for about 15 years.

[Native Cutter]

Sawguy21 thats pretty cool. And yeah Im with you, I cant imagine hauling around a big brute of a saw when you only need to pull a 24"!  A 272/372 would rip all day with a 24" and is still fairly light so I can def see guys in smaller 2nd growth and such using that combo.

Holmen Tree, thats a big honkin cedar! Holy moly. Ive seen a number of youtube vids from Oregon, washington of some huge cedars being dropped. It crazy cause theyr so old and catfaced they seem to explode when they hit.

And man an 064 with a 20" must rip like a monster! Thats a dang good saw, I think my fav of the bigger Stihls since its really light for how much power you have to work with. I wish they still made it.
I ran one with a 42" b&c  buckin residual redwoods and some old growth fir on super steep powereline right of way work.  We fell, bucked, hauled and decked all the merchantable timber for the landowners as we went. Fun job.