machining the 16 inch homemade bandwheels

[markct]

heres some pics of my bandwheels i made for my bandsaw im building, they were machined from damaged 16 inch mag wheels, here is the first pic that shows the rim after i sawed it in half with a skilsaw

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/marksawedrim.JPG

[markct]

these ones show it mounted to the spindle of my horizontal mill which is being used as my poor mans gap bed lathe!

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/markwheel2.JPG

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/markmachiningwheel1.JPG

then here is the first one finished

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/markfinishedrim.JPG

[markct]

then this is the wheel that will be on the idler end, i had to face the center part off so that i could mount the auto hub and spindle on this side of the rim, i am using the hub and spindle from the rear of a front wheel drive car, that will be mounted to a plate that will slide back and forth to tension it and then will have adjustments for tracking

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/markcenterbore.JPG

i will post more pics as i get them

[Fla._Deadheader]

  I take it, that, you are planning to use the wheels with a flange on the back side ??? I'm not sure if that will work. It might, as long as the blade does not try to climb the flange and break, or torque things out of shape. I believe metal wheels are crowned in the center, so the blade tries to "Center" itself ???  Your idea will be interesting to see, if it works.

  I am not condemning what you have. Just have not heard of it before.  ;D ;D

[Tom]

You might consider a rubber tire of some sort.  I'm not sure that the Mag wheel will be tough enough to stand the abrasion from direct contact with a band blade.  I know that even steel wheels require re-crowning on occasion.

I look forward to your discussion on the mechanics of how the blade will track.

[EZ]

I agree with FD and Tom.
I tried to run flat wheels on my first mill and the blade wouldnt track at all.
Looks good so far tho.
EZ

[D._Frederick]

Markct,

I am afraid that you are going to be disappointed with blade life using a 16 inch diameter wheel. If you use 0.042 inch thick blade and have a blade speed of at least 5000 ft per minute and tension the blade to 1000-1200 lbs,  I doubt that you  can get 4 or 5 hours run time maximum. You can try 0.032 inch blades, but they deflect more easily and you get wavey cuts. The meat saws use a flange on the band wheels, but they run a lot slower.

[edsaws]

My concern wood be the flang too. The tracking would have to be dead on and even then I think the flag would be a problem when some pressure from sawing pushes the blade back a little. Not to change the subject, I'm lookin at your set up I'm thinken you could get some of them V groove casters and machine them with a flat O.D. with a flange to make some blade guides ???. As long as you get the I.D. running concentric to the O.D.

[markct]

well thanks for the input guys, it came at the right time to make me reconsider my plans since i was just ready to start welding stuff to the main beam of my mill, basicly let me explain my non sawyer thinking as to why i arived at 16 inch with a flange being a good choice, well my horizontal metal cutting bandsaw uses metal wheels with a flange, as does our verticle metal cutting bandsaw at work, so i thought a flange would be good, and as for the dia, well i saw that 16 inch wheels were what hudson sawmills used on there smaller models so i figured they would be fine, and i was planning to run a rubber tire on them by the way. now that i have input from some more experienced hands i am thinking about going with the v belt pulleys and belts for tires as woodmizer does, i dont know if they still do but an older woodmizer i worked on a while back had just a standard pair of v belt pulleys and oversized belts that ran loose on them. it looks like i could get 19 inch dia pulleys for around 150 each, plus another 20 for the tapered bushings in the center, not as cheap as my damaged mag wheels, but i would rather spend the money now than rework the whole thing later. would going to 19 inch wheels help my blade life? what size do most woodmizers use? if i go with a 25 inch dia which is the next standard pulley listed in grainger then the price jumps up to 250 each, ouch! thanks for the input guys, like i said i was going from my metalworking type bandsaw experience, and thinkin about it now a metal bandsaw runs at around 200 fpm so fatige is no wheres near the issue it would be at 5000 fpm. thanks for opening my eyes to this at the time ya did, i think i will toss out the 16 inch rims if 19 inch will be better. let me know what ya think, im not planning to saw for a living with this, but i will use it a decent amount and dont wanna spend a fourtune on blades. im hoping 19 inch will be better

[Al_Smith]

For what it's worth,my wood working Cresent band saw,has 20" crowned cast iron wheels,with rubber tires.It runs a thin 1/2"blade.Most horizontal,metal cutting bandsaws,use flanged wheels,but,of course ,run a lot slower,80,to 200 fpm.

[EZ]

The 19 inch wheels will be alot better, I think most of the WM use 19 inch. Its to bad with all the time you put in turning them 16 rims, but the fact is you will be better off with the bigger wheels. I have 24 inch wheels on mine and at times I wish I had 30 inch.
EZ

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Let's see if I can flush D. Frederick outta the brush. ;D ;D

  We used 13" Boat trailer wheels and tires to build our Woodmizer copy. If I did it again, I wood use 12" wheels and tires. Balance them real careful, and they work very well, for about $40.00.  ;D ;D  We ended up with 24" outside dia. and can cut 37" wide boards for table slabs.  ;D

  Took me a LOT longer to machine my parts, though. ;) ;D

[markct]

well i think i will go with the 19 inch wheels then, im not too worried about the time i put into the other wheels, it realy was only about maybe 8 hours all together between making the hub and cutting and machining the rims, but i think i will see about ordering a set of the 19 inch pulleys and some loose belts thru grainger. i would like to get them from some other place since grainger is real hard to get stuff from since they wont sell to the public, but it appears that msc and mcmasterr carr dont carry any that big with the taper lock hubs

[raycon]

Heres a good starting point for bandwheel diameter sizing. Bigger is better.

http://www.ebandsawblades.com/custom.aspx?id=6

I have a pair of 18" bandwheels sitting unused with a hub and mounting bearings.
What size engine you going to be using to power the bandmill?

[D._Frederick]

markct,

I have 19 inch wheels on my LINN LUMBER mill and was getting about 8+ hrs run time on a blade with a 7 1/2 hp motor. I increased the the blade life by stopping the blade after each cut (as WM does) and slowing the blade speed down 1000 ft/min. I am now getting about 14 -15 hr range now before breakage. Sharpening also has an effect on blade life.

As far as using inflated tires for band wheels, ownly one mfg. is using tires out of all the rest that are using metal wheels. I would suggest going with the largest band wheel that your pocket book will allow.

[D._Frederick]

markct,

I just got thru looking at your milling operation again and am wondering if you could get some 3/4 inch thick plate steel and turn your own wheels. Baker and Cook are fab. this kind of band wheel.

[markct]

ray: i may be interested in those bandsaw wheels, i have been thinking of going the 19 inch pulley and belt route buying them from graingers they are about 125 a piece, but if ya wanted to part with your bandwheels for a reasonable price i may be interested, especialy since your within driving distance from me, my email is L600us@yahoo.com, do ya have any pics of the wheels?

[T_in_SC]

What "D" said sounds like a good and doable idea.  Has anyone tried it?

[markct]

i thought about it but with the price of steel these days its probably not worth it and i dont have anything big enough that thick laying around, woodmizer seems to use the regular belt pulleys on all there mills and i knwo they are considered a good mill so im thinking i will follow there lead

[raycon]

Mark you may want to take a ride over to industrial surplus on the berlin turnpike they have some "good" stuff in the back buildings.

Last time I was there I went home with 2 line-o-mills.

[markct]

hmm never heard of them, i will have to find them sometime, ever been to the pratt and whitney surplus store, they got some good stuff from time to time

[raycon]

http://www.industrialsurplus.com/

Its worth a visit in person to dig through the stuff that does not make it to the web. Cash is king.

[Al_Smith]

There is a local pallet works that use commercialy made pallet disassembly,and resaws,that use inflatable tires.The owner,told me he has had excellent luck with them,and breaks fewer blades than when he used rigid wheels.They,of course,use a lot of blades,because of the nails on the disassembly saws.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Since we switched to Munks Blades, we have not broken any. We get a LOT of hours per blade, and I NEVER shut down to draw the sawhead back. Sometimes I leave things at high speed while we turn a log or decide the next cut. For a spell of over 5 minutes, I MAY idle down and disengage the blade, but, usually it keeps turning due to friction of the drive pulley.

  When I have to get close to the blade, I shut down completely. I am sure we have 70+ hours on some of the blades, and 3000+ bd/ft per blade. I run them as long as they cut decent, probably too long in most cases. I grind light to be sure and touch the Gullet, and have sharpened some of them 8-10 times, or more. I believe inflated tires are easier on the blades, also.

  I will put our board quality up against anyones.

  

[neslrite]

Mark,
  If you can't find your pulley's give me a call I have an account with Graingers and would be glad to get them for you. I am just up in Tolland.
  I also have a woodmizer LT40hd if you want to look at one.
Kevin