Down in the Dumps with my Kohler Engine / Not fixed / FIXED!

[Kbeitz]

The Bright side is with all that  backfiring the inside of your muffler is going to be Bright and shiny...

[MartyParsons]

Hello,
   I have some comments you can take them and use them as you please.

• To rate one issue with Kohler on an open forum is great. If you look at every Kohler engine and think WOW i remember one post and there was an issue I would never own one is not correct. WM has sold many of these engines. We have been selling these engines on the Wood Mizer mills and we also sell zero turn lawn equipment with the same engine. Not seen many issues. I could also most say zero issues. We had one last week and  I posted the issue it had. You can read the post. I would say they are a great engine. These engines have great power and work well. 
• I have been following this post and helping when I can.
• It is unfortunate for David to have these issues and he has been good about posting what he is going through. I am sure there will be a happy ending! It will help others in the future. That is what this forum is all about.
• Kohler tech team is top notch. They are always willing to help the dealer network. We just purchased the program so we could look at the information the ECU sees. Never needed it.. Kohler recommended we purchase it about 3 years ago.  I told Roger that we would purchase the program when we started seeing issues with these engines. The issue with the muffler we had last week. I thought it would be something other than the muffler so we purchased a fuel pressure gauge and the program for a lap top. We will be prepared if we do find an issue that needs more attention in the future. Still did not need it. We just kinda lucked into finding the issue.
• WIth out having the Red light on Davids mill working it is hard to diagnosis the issue over the forum, phone or providing help. The proper term is MIL light or you can call it a check engine light.

I hope this information helps others.
Marty[/list]

[tnaz]

Hello,
   I have some comments you can take them and use them as you please.

• To rate one issue with Kohler on an open forum is great. If you look at every Kohler engine and think WOW i remember one post and there was an issue I would never own one is not correct. WM has sold many of these engines. We have been selling these engines on the Wood Mizer mills and we also sell zero turn lawn equipment with the same engine. Not seen many issues. I could also most say zero issues. We had one last week and  I posted the issue it had. You can read the post. I would say they are a great engine. These engines have great power and work well. 


• I have been following this post and helping when I can.
• It is unfortunate for David to have these issues and he has been good about posting what he is going through. I am sure there will be a happy ending! It will help others in the future. That is what this forum is all about.
• Kohler tech team is top notch. They are always willing to help the dealer network. We just purchased the program so we could look at the information the ECU sees. Never needed it.. Kohler recommended we purchase it about 3 years ago.  I told Roger that we would purchase the program when we started seeing issues with these engines. The issue with the muffler we had last week. I thought it would be something other than the muffler so we purchased a fuel pressure gauge and the program for a lap top. We will be prepared if we do find an issue that needs more attention in the future. Still did not need it. We just kinda lucked into finding the issue.
• WIth out having the Red light on Davids mill working it is hard to diagnosis the issue over the forum, phone or providing help. The proper term is MIL light or you can call it a check engine light.

I hope this information helps others.
Marty[/list]

And one motor would be minimal?
Replace the motor, whom ever pays!
Wooodmizer or Kohler!

[Larry]

First I really feel sorry for the trials you are going through with the engine on the blink.  It is super frustrating and also hurts in the pocket book.

I have had one question for a while.  Being stationery why not an electric mill?  No contest in reliability when compared to a gas mill.  Expenses would also be much less.  Production would be higher.  Even if all you have is single phase it wouldn't take much to run a 15 HP electric off a rotary phase converter.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Good post Marty.
I have not once been mad about this situation.
I wanna learn and want others to learn what the problem is.
Kohler and Woodmizer both are working very hard to help me and I appreciate it.

Let it be known I am ready to buy another Kohler Engine if this one can't be fixed.
I have not turned against Kohler....I working WITH Kohler and they ARE helping me. This is good! 

It'll all work out.....Kohler is a good engine. 

[tnaz]

Just in case I miss read something, or not read something; how old is the mill and motor?

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

I have had one question for a while.  Being stationery why not an electric mill?  No contest in reliability when compared to a gas mill.  Expenses would also be much less.  Production would be higher.

Good question Larry.
I am stationary. I looked into a 3 phase before ordering my mill. Over $6,000 to get 3 phase run from the highway to my mill in the shed.

As I am set up now, I can saw up to 14 foot.
Anything over 14, I pull the mill outside the shed.

It gives me 360° movement for equipment etc. which I do not have in the shed.

Now, IMO, selling a gas or diesel engine with sell much quicker than a 3 phase motor.
Some potential customers back out of an electric band mill when they get sticker shock  as to what 3 phase will cost.

And who knows, I might wanna go somewhere and saw a log somewhere, someday.  ;D

[sandsawmill14]

it appears that turf care is the problem here. but maybe you will get it fixed soon   kohler will probably fix the problem with turf care too ;D i know that the big corps do care about dealer service back in 93 or 94 me and my wife were on vacation in dodge pickup that was under warranty and the oil pressure light came on so i cut it off and spent the night in campground and called the local dealer the next morning and they would not check it unless i made an appointment and the earliest one they had was 4 days >:(  i called the dealer that sold the truck and told them the problem and he said dont even check the oil just drive it (in some colorful language) :D and ask for the dealers name and town so i told him  ??? then i did find a speedy lube type shop who checked oil pressure with a manual gauge and said it was just the sensor so we finished the trip with no problems but about 3 months later we had the truck at our dealer for service and steve came out and ask if i remembered a certain dealership and i said yes and he said they were no longer selling dodge products that they lost their dealership over that oil sensor   the thing is our dealer is no better but he said that there was something about a stranded motorist that no dealership could put off over just a few hours  ??? i dont know if its that way now or not and if was all dealers or just dodge.    but turf care could be the one losing out  here in the end if they dont get it together

[tnaz]

I have had one question for a while.  Being stationery why not an electric mill?  No contest in reliability when compared to a gas mill.  Expenses would also be much less.  Production would be higher.

Good question Larry.
I am stationary. I looked into a 3 phase before ordering my mill. Over $6,000 to get 3 phase run from the highway to my mill in the shed.

As I am set up now, I can saw up to 14 foot.
Anything over 14, I pull the mill outside the shed.

It gives me 360° movement for equipment etc. which I do not have in the shed.

Now, IMO, selling a gas or diesel engine with sell much quicker than a 3 phase motor.
Some potential customers back out of an electric band mill when they get sticker shock  as to what 3 phase will cost.

And who knows, I might wanna go somewhere and saw a log somewhere, someday.  ;D

Sorry for getting in the way.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Just in case I miss read something, or not read something; how old is the mill and motor?

The engine has about 1200 hours
The mill is a 2010

[outpost22]

Crap. I didn't know the "sequel" would show up this quickly  :embarassed:

I've been biting my lip saying this, but my small engine repair guy that I've dealt with for 30+  years told me last year to stay away from the newer Kohler engines. At the time I was looking to repower something besides a sawmill. I know that's sounds like "here say", etc, but that is what he told me, and I have bought a lot of equipment from him over the years.   Let's hope you end up with a "good" one or another choice  :(
I currently have 5 Honda small engines. One dates back to 1995. All run flawlessly. Just an FYI.

[tnaz]

Just in case I miss read something, or not read something; how old is the mill and motor?

The engine has about 1200 hours
The mill is a 2010

Thanks

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

All engines will eventually need repair.....ALL OF THEM.

My opinion of an engine is only as good as the repair guy fixing it and what he says.

Again....this is just my opinion.

I do my home work and know and talk to a lot of engine repair guys from different shops I know in my town and across the state.

I personally think Kohler is one of the top engines along with Honda and Kubota.
I'm sticking with my guns on this problem and Kohler also. I may not stick with Turf Care again  :D :D :D :D
.......but I'm sticking with Kohler. 

[Peter Drouin]

A sticking goat. :D :D :D

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

A sticking goat. :D :D :D

;D

[Verticaltrx]

I'll be interested to find out what is wrong with the engine and if the EFI system actually tells you anything. I'm still undecided if I like the idea of EFI on small engines....

I'm not sure why this thread invoked this thought, but I'm fearful that even the good (larger?) companies are making cheaper and less reliable products these days. We have purchased Kubota, Deere and Honda products in the past few years that are of lower quality than the models they replaced. Less R&D, cheaper materials, and poorer Quality Control. That said, I have nothing but praise for my Woodmizer mill thus far.  ;D

Hope you get to the root cause of the problem without much more grief. 

[Brucer]

When I bought my first mill (LT40 manual) I had a choice of a 25 HP carbureted Kohler or a 28 HP EFI Kohler (for $400 more). I couldn't afford the diesel options :(. I ended up buying the 28 HP engine (with some misgivings, but I had 30 days to return it if I wasn't happy).

That engine was great. Started in any kind of weather, never let me down. A year later I sold the mill and bought a hydraulic LT40 with the same engine. Now, one week shy of 10 years old, the second mill is about to roll over to 2500 hours.

I have only had three problems with the engine. Two were mechanical problems relating to the fuel supply.

The first problem was caused by a blocked fuel return line (which was my fault because I changed the connector in the return line). The local WM dealer couldn't help, so he put me through to Indy. The WM engine gurut couldn't help, so he gave me the contact info for the Kohler distributer here in BC. Even he wasn't able to help, so he gave me the name of a local repair shop. That guy told me to bring the whole mill over. He quickly discovered the blocked fuel return, fixed it, and the engine was fine.

The reason none of the experts could diagnose the problem was that nobody had ever experienced the problem before. I changed something, didn't even consider that it might cause a problem, and never mentioned it.

The second problem was a pinhole leak in the suction tube in one of my fuel tanks. It was so tiny that it only caused problems in very hot weather.

The Kohler distributor was great. He guessed I was having fuel issues and walked me through the whole fuel system. He also e-mailed me the complete service manual.

The third problem was a burnt out fuel pump. That happened at 2340 hours and I didn't need any help in figuring that one out.

I would not hesitate to buy another Kohler EFI engine.

[Brucer]

For those of you who suspect that it might be the fuel system and not the EFI, keep this in mind. The only fuel supply issues that are strictly mechanical involve the fuel getting to the fuel rail that feeds the injectors, and the surplus fuel returning to the tank. That's basically the fuel lines, the connectors, the fuel pump, the fuel filters and the pressure relief valve.

Everything to do with the timing, the fuel mixture, and the governor is controlled by the EFI system. The diagnostic light (MIL) will give you a complete set of diagnostic codes. The codes are visual, two digit numbers which you read by counting the number of flashes. No external computer necessary. The WM engine manual has a listing of all the codes.

What this basically means is that if the light isn't working, you have a real problem with troubleshooting.

[Kbeitz]

I bet it could very well be the cam shaft. They had it running good at the shop.
I'm betting they adjusted the valves and the cam was bad. After adjustment the rough
cam wore down fast going back to running bad again. Just my $0.02.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Heres the lasted update.


I started having problems with the Simple Set about the same time I started having problems with the engine.
As we all know the engine is still not operating properly.

My simple set started displaying the EO3 Sensor on the screen. At times it would not work at all.
I am wondering if the engine and Simple Set problems are related in the electrical system.

I ordered a new brain for the simple set, installed it.....it gave me the proper codes that the old brain did not give.

I thought well, problem solved. Nope....Now the Simple set is even worse. The cable is good, checked it with a meter. The Encoder light blinks properly. The Simple Set will work in manual mode but as soon as I enter a thickness....the EO3 sensor is displayed. Turn the engine off and turn it back on.....if I'm lucky, the Simple Set will work but not stop where it is suppose to. The thicknesses I program into it will change sometimes on its on....and all the while the DanG engine is skipping away. Drives me up the wall!!!!! >:(

Now, heres the good part. Turf Care repair shop was suppose to fix my engine to begin with. Their work did not solve the problem. Kohler talked to another Authorized repair shop (Forman's) and they were to make a house call to my mill this afternoon to work on the engine in my shed.

Well this morning, Turf Care Repair Shop calls me and evidently Kohler had a word of prayer with them. The top manager called and said their TOP tech would be at my mill this Monday. He said if they could not find the problem, Kohler would send someone from the Big House.

I am about ready to trade the mill or strap it on my chest and board an airplane. The engine is gonna blow up one day if its not fixed.

I think it has a problem nobody has ever seen before.

Personally I'm thinking the simple set and engine are related. But something new always happens that changes my mine.

[starmac]

Hopefully betweem woodmizer,kohler,turfcare and foremans, you will get some relief soon.
I have run kohlers on everything from rototillers to welders and aircompressors, but all one cylinder and carbed, no efi at all. I expect I will need to replace the onan on my mill eventually and sure hope the woodmiser replacement kohler is carbed.

[Ga Mtn Man]

Have you tried operating the SS without the engine running?

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Have you tried operating the SS without the engine running?

Yes....same as with the engine running.

This afternoon I even went and bought a new ignition switch from O'Riley's. I did this after talking with Woodmizer.
I installed the new switch and it changed nothing. I thought it was worth a try to see if I had a glitch in the switch.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Pineywoods....I liked your idea about running a jumper from the ECU to the battery.
The Kohler tech asked me to PLEASE wait until they come. 

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Just want to let everyone know, Kohler and Woodmizer is not taking this problem lightly.
They're in this with me and are keeping in touch.
We're all working together.