Homelite C5 thru XP-1020 Phelon's

[weimedog]

Are really cheezy. There are a package of cheaply engineered components in that ignition. I have found a really simple to fix issue that I bet is common with this saw series....I e-bayed a couple of C-5's ....turns out one is a C-7 but thats just a bonus. Neither had spark. Rooting around I found BOTH plug wires were loose in the coils so since these are junkers..I pulled one out.

The coil only has this little cheezy stiff wire that sticks into the plug wire. The plug wire is pretty thin so when they get a little older and shrink there is little or no resistance to hold them into the COIL> therefor little or no spark.

SO a little high temp ATV, stuff that spark pull wire into the coil, set the points to .015;  and a little patience and I got the C-7 which has mucho compression & a clean looking piston/Cylinder comb to do it with a nice snappy hot blue spark. On to the carb & fuel line. So far only time aggrevation spent on top of the ebay cost. This one is going to be a runner.

The other C-5 has a toasted piston. Off to Kustom Kraft I guess to see if a place like that can salvage a cylinder with a sleeve.

I wonder what the engineers were thinking with this series saw. The crank & bearings are large for the displacement of a C-7 (80cc) The saw is BIG and heavy. I can see how they were able to evolve this series chassis into the big boomers like the 1020-1050's.

They (The C-5, C7,C9) were sold in the same time period as the XL700-925 series saws. WHY would anyone buy one when the XL700-925 are the same kind of power in a smaller and lighter package?? The only reason I can see is they are mechanically way over engineered. Bet the bearing, crank will outlast all other components.

BUT then back to my question. WHY put such a cheezy ignition package into such a brute of a saw!!!

[Lewis Brander]

Hello wiemedog, I have found the same problem with most of my older Homelites ( 600 D, C-5, C-51 and the old 5-20). If that's the only problem, it's easy enough to fix as long as the coil is good. Another problem I notice is where the drain hole for the air filter box (housing) is located in those saw. It's right over the spark plug wire where it attaches to the spark plug. Over a period of time the spark plug wire rots from any fuel that drips from the air cleaner housing, so I've had to replace the plug wires in the C series saws anyways. Again no biggie. Just something to watch out for. Take care. Lewis.

[weimedog]

Franken-saw lives! I blended the C-5 & C-7 and have a running saw. The C-7 had really good compresssion .... patched up an ignition out of the best parts from the C-5 & C-7, put a new fuel line in and a diafram kit, retro'ed the pull start from the C-5, the handle, a load of pre-mix....it started right up. Has good power.

I checked the specs for the C-7 (Thanks to Mike's site) and its bore & stroke is ever so slightly different than the 700-925 series saws.

C-7:       Bore 2.0in Stroke 1.5625
XL-800:  Bore 2.0625 Stroke 1.50inches

The C-7 feels to have the same compression but measures just a couple of pounds more than my fresh XL-800 (Like 3 pounds)

The C-7 runs slightly different than the XL-800 which seems to settle into the cut after I tune them under load at (by ear) just a bit more RPM's.

Is that because of the tune &bore and stroke? Maybe.

Homelite offered up to a 30in bar on the C-7 and up to a 36inch bar on the Xl-800......why the difference?

I stuck a 36in bar on the C-7 anyway and plan to see if it can mill today. The XL-925 I have actually can quite well.

Still trying to understand whay the C-7 existed along side the XL-800 series saw.............

[Al_Smith]

Hey Walt,and Lewis:I have the Homelite dealers manual,and am sending Oz and Mike Acres the parts lists,for use on their sites.Do you guys,or any one else,want the parts lists.If so ,send me an e-mail,and I will forward it to you.

[twostroke_blood]

Hey Weimedog, I did a search on Kustom Kraft. Do you have any experience with them? I'd sure like to get my extra pistons and cylinders redone for my Alpina 120's. Also can you offer any tips on tuning my SXL-925? It runs smoth but i think it has more power to offer.

[weimedog]

I used Kustom Kraft several times on motorcycle stuff. They did EXCELLENT work. Never tried the saws yet. What they do is bore the barrel and insert a standard iron sleeve and then cut the ports & bore the ID to match your piston and transfer ports. The one job they did that sold me was years ago they build a Cagiva 200cc cylinder barrel for me. That stuff was unobainable then and now but they figured it out anyway. (Cagiva was the company that has evolved into Husqvarna motorcycles in Italy)

I do plan to try a saw barrel with them. Right now I have two candidates. A Homelite 707 and a Homelite C-5. Reason I haven't moved yet is it seems those barrels and pistons keep turning up on ebay!

[twostroke_blood]

How about the pistons? do they duplicate pistons? I have Two Alpina 120 parts saws to feed my good running saw. i'd love to have the other cylinder/pistons refurbished to have on standby

[weimedog]

I never asked them to refurbish a piston. My bet is you need to supply a piston but why not ask?

(What is an Alpina?)

[twostroke_blood]

Alpina = Italian made saw. 120cc (pro 120). I have a picture of it on my posting on page 4 "new to forum"

[weimedog]

Have to wonder if a piston from another application with the same bore or even similar (If your going to resleeve) is a possibility. The Homelite piston for a 707 thru me a curve as the transfer ports are asimetrical....so nothing I can even think of will retro. But I can see the the C-5,C-7,C-9 up thru the big 1050's can blend if needed (with re-sleaving). Have to wonder if Maule did the piston for your Italian and if maybe a piston from even a different brand would have the same wrist pin ID and transfers close enough to the right place and a similar enough dia for a sleeve to work with it..AND..the skirt length to where it won't interfere with the crank. (Used to do a "Yamaha Rod/Piston" conversion on some old husvarna motors so parts would be available...until we all found out Husqvarna parts are even MORE available than old Yamaha! Figure that one out)

[twostroke_blood]

I checked on the "chainsaw collectors corner site", and my Alpina has a piston bore of 2.28" and a stroke of 1.79". Like i said earlier the piston and cylinder are in perfect shape, but i have two complete parts saws and i'd love to have those cylinders redone and find a couple new or" like new" pistons to inventory. By the way i also have a sxl925 its completly rebuilt an a sweet running machine. Gotta love the old homey's

[weimedog]

I love my Homelite SXL-925...once I got over being afraid to really tune it...(I didn't want to lean it out too much)..it really RIPS. Best saw I own for real world work.

[twostroke_blood]

On your other posting I mentioned to you that I knew a guy that bought out a former Homelite dealer. I asked him if he had any " New Old Stock" bars for big homelites . I ran into him today, and he said he didnt have any but he may have some good used bars . he also said that he would sell me his 2100, but didnt price it. I purchased a rototiller from this guy for my sons Bolens. its in mint condition and he only charged me $25 .  Im liking that sxl925 of mine more and more . When you say " im not affraid to tune it" what do you mean can you be more specific on the settings? are you tuning by ear or using a meter? how many turns on the screws ect... I know, lots of questions  :D                                                             

[weimedog]

I tune under load by ear...and then fine tune by plug color. I have been using stock point setting although I am tempted to mess with the timing a bit to see if that bears fruit.  Simple technology. Simple techincs. I have the tools to build my VOR fourstrokes...but after spending years on those critical sensitve race oriented motorcycles (both two and four stroke) I LIKE the simplicity of these old work horses!!

[twostroke_blood]

What kind of gas/oil mixture are you using in your saws? Im refering to the type of oil not the ratio. Im thinking about going synthetic ,and i mean on everything. truck, tractors, saws sawmill ect.... You made a comment on one of your other threads refering to blending hobby with functional use. That totally describes me. I have a brand new sawmill but everything else is Vintage. "87" Ford F-250, "50" TO-20 Ferguson, "55" OC3 Crawler, SXL-925, XL-12, "70's" vintage Alpina's (Big Saws), vintage hand winches ect..... You get the picture. This "Through-Away Society" we live in today dosent agree with my sensabilities. Todays Chainsaws are real cutting machines, and i like them ,but as my brother put it when i showed him my SXL-925, " Man this thing looks like a 57 Chevy" Like the 57 Chevy these old saws wont be put into production anytime soon (never again). Thanks to the Internet we can access replacement parts from a Million different "Small Engine Guys" all over the world. Not to mention Ebay. And what a great site this is. Untill i found this i thought i was the only guy in the world that likes old chainsaws, go figure.

[weimedog]

I use Mobil One MX2T at 32 to 1 mixed with 100LL Av-gas in all my two strokes. It seems to be a good compromise. Motorcycles and saws. New and old. Seems to work well and after a few tear downs (motorcycles) I am more confident with this descision as time goes on. I've used everything from Golden -Spectro to Bel-Ray to Quicksilver brand Outboard oil (Oh yea..I like 1950 era Mercs..have a couple of MK58-A's I built a few years ago) and the Mobil One is every bit as good. I spent most of my concious life time racing motorcycles on and off (from 1970 to 2001 when injury put an end to that pass time). Had many Oil concepts enter and exit my racing life so my feeling about a brand of oil is usually thru imperical data.

On my Four Strokes, I ALSO use Mobil One. I worked for a motorcycle company for a short time and learned a LOT about the oil business..enough to know you really can't beat the Mobil One stuff. They can produce enough quantity to keep the price under the little specialty companies..(like Belray)..but with a technology level a generation ahead.

In the VOR's the Transmission & Motor are using the same oil. The clutch has a problem with newer synthetics with friction modifiers...they are too slippery. Mobil one 15-50 with the red cap doesn't have that "EC" (Energy Conservation) rating along with those friction modifiers...therefor works well with the VOR situation...I also use the 15-50 in our 1976 Chev Pickup with a warmed over 454..(Summer time hualing truck). I use the appropriate Mobil One oils in our Bonnyville SSEI & Dodge Durange as well. Year around.

Like you I have a working collection of stuff.....A Case 780C Backhoe, A Ford LTL 9000 Dump (I like those old mechanical Cummins...this one is a Big Cam II at 400hp....The Big Cam II was the last year for the higher oil pressure), An old International 1066 farm tractor.....etc. I drive a 375hp N14 all day in a snow plow and STILL don't like the electric throttle by wire vs. mechanical Cummins. The old ones have throttle response.

I also have a collection of period motorcycles that include a couple of my favorites; 1979 KTM420, 1983 Husky AE430, 2001 VOR503, and 2002 VOR 450. These are sitting more as Chain saws have been where the heart is this last couple of years.

My saws are listed in my signiture...and I'm probable going to "thin" the other stuff and focus more on these old saws. I find them both more useful and more gratifying. I don't know why. I just like them.

The projects around our farm require LOTS of sawing and now milling and these things just fit the situation perfectly. Making what would be a chore into a fun time for me.