Hourly Rate

[red]

If you saw for Cheap it quickly becomes starvation wages . You have lots of work but when something breaks you can't afford to fix it . Tell you customers you want to be in business next year and the year after.

[4x4American]

If you saw for Cheap it quickly becomes starvation wages . You have lots of work but when something breaks you can't afford to fix it . Tell you customers you want to be in business next year and the year after.

That's good advice that I need to remember

[Okrafarmer]

If you saw for Cheap it quickly becomes starvation wages . You have lots of work but when something breaks you can't afford to fix it . Tell you customers you want to be in business next year and the year after.

This is indeed true, but remember that starvation wage for one man is slick pockets wage for a man in a different situation.

[Timster]

An urban sawyer in the Bronx

After an initial chuckle it got me thinking just what would a sawyer saw in the Bronx. There are few trees that are not in city parks and I doubt you could find any tree that did not contain iron.

:D :D :D

[Okrafarmer]

True. Just saying.  :D

[OlJarhead]

If you saw for Cheap it quickly becomes starvation wages . You have lots of work but when something breaks you can't afford to fix it . Tell you customers you want to be in business next year and the year after.

No matter what you charge a new spare tire is at least $200 or so...new bands?  $$$.....replacement belts, various odds and sods, a blown up chainsaw...you get the picture. 

I could charge less but then I couldn't fix stuff that broke when it did and at that point I'd be done.  No sense in it.  For me it's about sustainability.  The business must be able to pay me a wage, pay for all it's own expenses and put money away after taxes for those times when there isn't any business.

[carykong]

I did remote sawing with my old LT25 a few years ago an charged $45/hr. If I provided a helper, $65/hr.  If my loader was on site $200 per day. 

I had a job with a large company for a week in which they provided a skidstear and three helpers.  All I did was move the cutting head back and forth and up and down. Only charged $45/hour. They wore me out. Production was high. It was a true pardnership with the client.

[4x4American]

I don't get to set the prices for the wholesale market, but I may rethink my pricing for portable/custom sawing.  The way I'm set up now, I'm under cover, I have a whole work flow setup, and for me to move all my stuff to a job within 1 hours drive away, I would lose a whole or maybe half day sawing, twice.  So the past few portable jobs I've been asked about, I told them $500 will get me there, set up, and back outta there.  The way I see it, I will lose two days sawing the wholesale stuff and it ain't worth it to me otherwise.  So far that figure has scared people away, and I'm tickled about it.  8)

[red]

But you also have to think about the Big Picture .  Are you ok not doing any portable milling . Then why have a portable sawmill ? Just going for one day with a pickup truck and sawmill you should be able to price accordingly. You run the sawmill they provide labor. Keep it Simple.

[Dave Shepard]

It's not a portable sawmill if you let the sawdust build up around the wheels. ;D

[Magicman]

I am totally portable but very seldom charge hourly rate.  ERC and special cuts such as beams/mantels only.  Travel and setup takes care of, well travel and setup.   ;D

[Okrafarmer]

Around these parts, it would be rare for a customer to have 1,000 bf to mill all at once. I had three or four customers who did, and made some good money doing their logs. But nobody had a whack of really great logs just sitting there in their prime. I once capped my rates to 50 c per bf, and just about lost my shirt.

[Tom the Sawyer]

In my area, mobile milling services are quite rare.  When someone checks the state sawmill listing (or many on-line resources), they'll find plenty of 'portable' mills - most of which never move.  Other than a weekender chainsaw mill who I work with on oversized logs,  there are no other actve, portable sawmills working in my service area (18,000 square miles).

I'm 65, wouldn't mind if someone else started up in the next few years.  ;) ;)

[4x4American]

But you also have to think about the Big Picture .  Are you ok not doing any portable milling . Then why have a portable sawmill ? Just going for one day with a pickup truck and sawmill you should be able to price accordingly. You run the sawmill they provide labor. Keep it Simple.

I think I'll be ok. I am going on tour with the sawmill in the next few weeks, for a friend, who I told I would do a portable job back when I was slow, now I'm fast and don't wanna do it but gonna honor my word. He is a logger, has a good sized mechanized operation.  Has more iron than most loggers haha.  I think 5 skidders, hydro ax feller buncher, tracked buncher, two loaders, stroke delimber, big butt chipper, dozer, excavator, western star trucks, etc.  Anyways he said he has 6mbf for me to saw out for him and I was gonna do it in trade for a truck and maybe pup of nice chestnut oak.  Then I have a couple mbf job for a guy who did some work for me, pine for a shop.  Then 2 min down the rd from that I have a job of a lot of rotten pine logs that I'm supposed to pick out the best ones and saw him out siding for a 200x50' shop.  Then there's a guy up the road from my sawmill, and then there's my neighbor where I live has a couple thousand feet.  And once I'm back from going on tour, I'm telling people the same thing, $500 or wait til I go on tour again  :D


I am thinking that in the future I want to keep this 40 super I have now for mainly portable work, and then get a bigger stationary setup for cranking out production grade/ties/pallet stock.  I will see where I am at in a few years and go from there.  Heck I might even hire someone to run one of the sawmills.  Maybe I'll have a few people working for me, maybe I'll stay just me, who the heck knows  :D   Just gonna take it day by day...

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It's not a portable sawmill if you let the sawdust build up around the wheels. ;D

That's right!  :D   Boy do I despise cleaning out from under that sawmill.


Last week my edger got so full underneath it that the chains started plugging up and almost popped off, I heard a thump and after I heard it again I shut her down.  I ended up hooking to it and driving away and the neighbor come by with his loader and cleaned her out.

[killamplanes]

Just have to say my mill has wheels lights etc. But it's electric so portability not so good. But I never wanted to tempt myself on going portable. Just me but I can just the same custom cut logs hourly or by bdft. And the great thing about having logs brought to your place is that your in your comfort zone, equipnent, and if there's a break down you say the heck with it and walk to the house and try again tommorrow.  Most mills have a reduced price for logs brought to them. Atleast what I've seen...

[Okrafarmer]

With the LT40 I always charged the same hourly rate for mobile jobs as for stationary, but I required a minimum of $400. So even if the hourly rate didn't come to $400, I still got $400. Mostly people just brought the logs to me.

[OlJarhead]

With the LT40 I always charged the same hourly rate for mobile jobs as for stationary, but I required a minimum of $400. So even if the hourly rate didn't come to $400, I still got $400. Mostly people just brought the logs to me.

My min is $425 (4hrs plus mobile setup fee)

[4x4American]

My idea was that they can hire a log truck/pup for $400 or so, so they'd be farther ahead to bring the logs to me.

[Peter Drouin]

4x4 you have to make up your mind. Do I go or stay.
To do both at the same time, you lose your shirt.

At one time I was going to have two mills. One here, one on the road. So if it's raining I can work here under a roof. With sunshine, I would work on the road.
But, I had customers come to the house when I was on the road and want something.

Money was coming to me at home, So why was I on the road?
For me here It was to stay and build a business here.  In the beginning, it was tough.

[Magicman]

Hourly rate and bf rates should equal out to ~the same.  For example, the difference between the two yesterday was $12.

[drobertson]

Hourly rate and bf rates should equal out to ~the same.  For example, the difference between the two yesterday was $12.

Could not be said any planer, for a steady as you go pace.
Log size I believe is the variable, I would be cheating myself by charging a flat hourly rate, where as by the bdft there can be some exceptional pay days, plus, to me it seems more tangiable  in that most plans will use the bdft as a measure
For material lists. This may not make sense 

[Magicman]

I should have noted that this was sawing 1" lumber.  When sawing framing lumber the bf rate tilts heavily in my direction because theoretically you make half as many passes.  In actuality, it is not doubled, but probably more like 25% better.  The log handling is the same regardless of the lumber thickness.

[OlJarhead]

Hourly rate and bf rates should equal out to ~the same.  For example, the difference between the two yesterday was $12.

Love ya man!  But here is where I'm not sure I agree at all.

Your rates should be what the market will bear.

However, let's look at some examples: 
1.  200 logs, no help, all logs are around 40bf....I milled around 1125bf/day and earned $600/day (I was charging less because this job was closer to home -- at the time I charged $10/hr less if I was within 50 miles of my home) which worked out to 53c/bf.  That's HIGH!  But I knew it was going to be because I was milling alone (not the agreement) with small logs and the last day I was milling stuff (the customer showed up then for a couple/few hours) that was 4 foot long and even shorter for various things he wanted (so the day production went down to just over 800bf)......If I charged by the bf on that job I'd lose money unless I charged 53c/bf but I've heard people charging mostly 30c/bf for softwood.  That means the job would have been $2700 for the 8 days of effort with me commuting 45 miles each way to the job every day and working my butt off, alone, milling up 200 logs that barely scaled 40bf ea...vs the $4800 I earned because I charged by the hour and clearly spelled out my rates etc up front.  Customer was happy, so the market would and did bear that rate.

2.  Milled up 4500bf in two days with much bigger logs and great help.  Average 2250 per day and earned $680/day (job was 125 miles from home) which worked out to 30c/bf so the hourly rate and bf rates matched.

The way I see it is that charging by the board foot is only good when you have the right logs, site and customer to ensure you'll be making good production the duration of the job.  Perhaps this is why a local (Methow) miller charges 50c/bf for softwoods and works alone.  He knows he's not going to produce a lot and make a lot per hour but he also knows he won't lose his shirt ;) 

For me, charging 50c/bf I'd make a killing on those jobs I'm milling at a faster rate.  I milled 283bf/hr on my last job (still not the best but with the logs I had and because I let the customer decide what they want to mill -- i.e. they can change it at any time -- during the day it can get a little slower if they want to look at something different etc) and at 50c/bf I would have earned $140/hr vs my $85.....at .30c/bf I would have earned $85/hr but on jobs where my production goes up over 300bf/hr I'd make over $100....

So it's a double edged sword.  At 30c/bf for softwoods you could make $42/hr or $105/hr all depending on the logs and help vs. you could earn a set hourly rate regardless of the logs, people are used to hourly rates (that's what their mechanic charges them), if they help it saves them a lot of money, etc etc....

Maybe I'm just a rookie but it seems to me it's about what the market can bear first, and then about what you can bear second; keeping in mind that you have maintenance on the mill, your truck, fuel, bands to resharp, tools to buy, that chainsaw to fix, insurance etc etc...

[OlJarhead]

Maybe what MM meant was on production jobs?  When straight milling 1x's etc with logs that scale out more than 40bf and a crew yanking them off the mill as they get sawn up?

That would make sense because I generally find those jobs the BF rate (if .30c for softwoods) often match my hourly rates (if $85/hr)

[Magicman]

There is no question that you are correct in your sawing situation because your hourly rate includes much more than sawing.  It's not necessarily termed "what the market will bear" because your labor is included.  Just fair wages for the job done.

My situation is entirely different.  I never saw alone.  The customer always provides help and there is almost always a tractor with FEL/forks on the site.   Notice that there were three tail gunners on yesterday's job and they were all working.  I never touched the sawdust scoop, a slab, or any lumber.