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Contract feller

Started by Garlic, March 07, 2017, 03:56:51 PM

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Garlic

Hello from Ohio. 
  I am not so new as I have read thus forum for awhile but just recently join as I need some advice and guidance with my woodlot. A little back ground.  I bought 20 acres in NE Ohio that was in vineyard in the 30's and was taken out in the 54.  Nothing has been done with this property since.  There is a range of sizes of timber from 42" cherry and tulip down to 8" tress.  Its in the forestry tax program.  I have spent the last two years getting the vines and the buckthorn under control.  I have put an ag building up and I want to use the timber from the culling to finish the building.  The state forester is on board with my game plane.  What I would like to do is hire contract feller to cut and maybe skid logs or I will hire a skidder .  Then I would like to get a band mill in there to cut what I need.  What I don't use I will sell.  You get the picture..  Even though I have a large amish  and logging in general in the area it seems hard to find someone willing to do so.  All they want is the timber for not a lot of money.  Has anyone out there done this?  I have a friend who did it this way about 15 years ago so a lot of those folks are no longer doing logging etc. Doing it this way will save capital outlay not including my time.  I hate to sell the timber for 6-8k and then spend 20k or more to buy the material i just sold.  I am open to any and all advice.  Thanks ahead of time.

gspren

  Ask a local forester who might do some felling/skidding. Ask the Wood-Mizer dealer for your area who does custom sawing at your site.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

Garlic

Well I have been down that path.  State foresters are overwhelmed our way.  I had a consultant forester which he mark for the TSI but he was looking for a sale.  I have approached logging companies and all they want is the logs which I understand its their business. 

TKehl

$7-10k will buy a good chainsaw, decent older tractor, and a new skidding arch.  There are also make lighter duty ATV skidding arches if you already have an ATV/UTV.  Look up Logrite.

If you are keeping brush down on overgrowth on 20 acres, you need a tractor and brushhog anyway.  ...or goats!   :D
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

Garlic

It will buy a lot.  I have been clearing it all by hand with loppers and a machete.  I would rather keep the trees and have them sawed up for lumber to finish this building.  I thought someone might know a contract feller that might be willing to cut.  I think it could be tough but I will continue to look.

Nemologger

Good luck finding a feller. I know here in Missouri its real tough to find guys to cut big standing timber. They either don't know anything or else they already have a cutting job.
Clean and Sober

Garlic

I know I have to be real picky as a lot of folks don't know what they are doing.  We do have a lot of amish our way and I am hoping I can get a guy or two to come in and cut and I will skid or they do they whole thing.  If I can't find someone to do it the way I want I guess I will do it myself.  It will give a good excuse to buy a new saw.:)

OH logger

Quote from: Garlic on March 21, 2017, 05:36:11 PM
I know I have to be real picky as a lot of folks don't know what they are doing.  We do have a lot of amish our way and I am hoping I can get a guy or two to come in and cut and I will skid or they do they whole thing.  If I can't find someone to do it the way I want I guess I will do it myself.  It will give a good excuse to buy a new saw.:)

I have them cut it now while we are in mud season. you would be a lot more likely to have a cutter available now that its too wet to work, well for most people  :o
john

jaciausa


Finding someone to log a small amount is very hard in the Midwest also. I am trying to get some of my oak off of a property that I am selling so I can use it the same as you are doing and to lower the price I can sell property. It is a very small amount and small property.
The costs for you if someone is capable to log for themselves, would be the same, minus the value to someone for the logs, I think?
So if someone would come for some logs that a landowner would sell to them the difference of the log value would have to be the cost, if you did not really care to get rid of any of your logs?
So if you offered 10 logs for what someone would offer you, they could not charge you more if they were being fair. Possibly you do not have enough timber to work out something involving a trade.

Garlic

I would not want it logged if possible in the wet season but there might not be a choice in that if I can find someone.
   I agree the cost would be the same but if I can't get someone to help me then I refuse to be held by the short hair so I would do it my self.  I have an agenda and a time frame.  I need to get the trees cut and the lumber drying to finish the building.  The timbering needs to get done so I can replant new trees.  One can't happen before the other. I have thought about trading the unused trees towards payment.  I guess I will have to see what kind of deal I can strike with a feller.  Thanks for the suggestion!

jaciausa



Its really hard to get all of the conditions to work. Your post helped me to think about what trees I needed for the timber frame I hope to have built.

I do not want to have my timber logged, to end up with lumber I would have to sell, to get back the value I am discounting the land. Also if I cannot get enough of the logs and still leave the site the way his plan for the property works I will just have to keep it, log it, and sell to someone that wants to use the property differently.

Having new owner bring to mill for me or in your case to your landing I believe is the safest way.
It might leave me short on logs needed if he does the work. I would be getting less board footage, but I would not be liable for anything associated with insurance, time issues or damage to property.

You will want to think about your building package, so you would end up with most of the lumber you want for your project.

I believe my best position will be to have new owner deliver to me at the mill. I will only take the lengths I need and the diameters I want to make the beams needed. I would need to make sure the trees were marked properly dropped and skidded. I am most worried about the dropping of these trees. They are black oak  about 22inch x 45feet. Some would be smaller in diameter and length so we would not have to cut all of biggest trees.  Good luck!



Stuart Caruk

I found a GREAT guy in our area. He typically works on contract, but if I need a couple days work, and I plan far enough ahead (a couple weeks) he will come out and cut for around $75 an hour. Doesn't matter if he is falling timber, or limbing, or clearing brush. I generally clear out around the timber I want him to fall and just have him drop it. The only real problem is that he rarely will hang around for more than a gallon jug of fuel. Once it's gone, so is he. So I plan accordingly and use him for the tough stuff.
Stuart Caruk
Wood-Mizer LX450 Diesel w/ debarker and home brewed extension, live log deck and outfeed rolls. Woodmizer twin blade edger, Barko 450 log loader, Clark 666 Grapple Skidder w/ 200' of mainline. Bobcats and forklifts.

Garlic

I guess I am looking for someone like that. I will do all the leg work prepping the skid trail and getting everything ready for the cutting.  I have been talking with a fellow from here and hopefully we will be able to come to some terms. 

Garlic

Since I posted this I was able to find the right timing.  I got the guy I wanted to cut it and he was in between jobs so it worked out pretty good.  Of course this time of the year might not be best due to staining etc...  Now I am looking for someone who has a portable mill.  I am keeping around 60k bd ft for my agg building.  I had one guy quote .35 bd ft for flat saw and .45 for quarter saw, plus $80 a day for his machine he supplies the labor.  Any insight would be helpful!

ChugiakTinkerer

Great to hear things are working out.  You might want to post your question about milling over in the Sawing and Milling forum, you'll probably get more replies.  The price you quote seems reasonable, but you probably want to make sure you've got all the sidebars worked out.
Woodland Mills HM130

killamplanes

Sawing price sounds fine. But I would be nervous of liability of contract feller. Is he working for you for a set price. Does he have a logging company, he maybe viewed as an employee. Just saying it's a crazy world out there... And it's not the safest job out there...my2c
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

4x4American

Try looking for a timber faller, might have better luck cause you can find a feller most any place, but not many fellers can fell timber like a timber faller can  ;D
Boy, back in my day..

Garlic

As far as the liability he was bonded and insured. A local amish logging company.  I have to say that I have seen some bad sites after logging not many but enough to know good from bad.  And this fellow did a nice job. Now there's tops and firewood to clean up but I told him to leave it as I would clean it up.  As far as charging he charged .12 a board foot (120 per thousand) to cut and to skid. Now the band milling and trying to find a kiln to dry 40k bd ft... that is going to be the to the tough part!!

Garlic


nativewolf

Quote from: ChugiakTinkerer on May 31, 2017, 05:44:44 PM
Great to hear things are working out.  You might want to post your question about milling over in the Sawing and Milling forum, you'll probably get more replies.  The price you quote seems reasonable, but you probably want to make sure you've got all the sidebars worked out.

Exactly, the sawyers are on the other thread.  Also you can check woodmizers site they have a good list.  That's quite a whack of logs.  Most guys would like to setup for a few days and not move. 

You say the sawyer was providing his own laborers?  That's nice.
Liking Walnut

nativewolf

Quote from: Garlic on June 01, 2017, 07:47:51 AM
As far as the liability he was bonded and insured. A local amish logging company.  I have to say that I have seen some bad sites after logging not many but enough to know good from bad.  And this fellow did a nice job. Now there's tops and firewood to clean up but I told him to leave it as I would clean it up.  As far as charging he charged .12 a board foot (120 per thousand) to cut and to skid. Now the band milling and trying to find a kiln to dry 40k bd ft... that is going to be the to the tough part!!

Did they use horses/mules to skid?  Do you have pictures of the logging site, just curious as to how they cut/skid.
Liking Walnut

TKehl

If you're using this for a barn, air dried should be sufficient.  (Unless you are talking about a climate controlled barn.)  If kiln dried, it would move some as it regains moisture. 
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

Garlic

He used a lot impact skidder. Most was done with a tracked skidsteer.  I will take some pictures tomorrow.  They did grade all the trails when done.  It was raining most of the time they were cutting but the ground is good draining and it wasn't to bad other than the lay down yard.

nativewolf

Amish using skidder?  Interesting, I always wondered what they did when skidding.  Or felling for that matter
Liking Walnut

mike_belben

Might be mennonite, they allow more technology but look pretty similar otherwise.
Praise The Lord

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