Looking for structural engineer in New Jersey

[jmeekel]

I own a timber frame house in NJ (built in 1992) and I am looking for a structural engineer to evaluate if the structure of the house is still good.

We have some problems on a wood floor on the second floor with some planks that have moved (including some broken tongues). A carpenter did point out to uneven shrinkage of the oak beams as well as some horizontal movement of some beams that might have contributed to the floor issue.

Before fixing the floor, we would like to understand  if, despite this shrinkage, the structure is still good, and are looking for an assessment from a structural engineer. I have looked in the Timber Framer Guild Engineer listing but they have no one in New Jersey and the closest structural engineer is in PA, more than 2 hours away, and he is not interested. I looked in the web without much success.

I would appreciate if anyone would have any recommendations on how to find a structural engineer for timber frame house in New Jersey.

Thanks.

[Southside]

I can't help you but find it funny that folks think a 2 hour drive is a deal breaker.  There was a time it took me 3 hours to get to the nearest town and grocery store.  

Welcome to the Forum and good luck with your search.  

[jmeekel]

Southside logger:
Thanks for the reply and the welcome.
Looking at the replies, this seems more difficult than I thought...
However, I understand if a structural engineer might prefer to limit their services to a local territory.
 
As it might take time to find a structural engineer, I would like to explore some of the expectations in terms of timber shrinkage, and specifically for 8x8 oak post and 8x10 oak girts. The house was built 16 years before I bought it, so I am assuming that the pre-cut timber was  brought already dried. I have measured a maximum shrinkage of 1/2" (meaning a minimum of 7" x 7" for 8x8 posts and 7" x 9" for 8x10 girts). Would this be within the expectations?
 
If this is within the expectations, my hypothesis at this time is that my wood floor issue is rather based on the following:
1.  A difference between longitudinal and diagonal shrinkage: The wood floor is set on 6x8 joists that are on top of the girts. However, at the edge of the floor, the floor is on top of notches on the peripheral posts and we clearly see the floor go up and down when following across the post notches. Sorry for my rough technical language, I am really a novice in this field.
2.  The joists on the length of the floor are setup as pairs joined on top of  the center girt (with dowel) , and some joist pairs show clear misalignment from a floor point of view. (I would assume that there is less constraints on the shrinkage and check of those joists due to their simpler "vertical" join).
Please let me know if this makes sense.
 
Thanks.

[timberwrestler]

The posts very well may have been planed down from 8x8, so the shrinkage would be from that dimension.  You could certainly get 1/4 - 1/2" of shinkage in red oak timbers of that size.  Sometimes that results in weird stuff happening, because the different timbers may do different things as they dry.  If the frame was not well designed, then you could certainly have shrinkage resulting in some less than ideal conditions.  The only structural concerns off the top of my head would be that the joists, girts, and tie beams (essentially all the beams that may come into the side of a post) have adequate bearing.  A few pictures might help.  

[Southside]

 say_what You lost me there for sure.  I just make them hit the ground then saw them into progressively smaller pieces for the most part   :D but I am not a timber frame guru.  There are some guys on here that know a lot more than I do.  I will summon the troops @Don P @Jim_Rogers 

My first question is on your measurements.  Are your timbers planned?  If so then the full dimension of 8x10 might not be what they were when they were installed as the planning will remove material.  Also, the pre-dried would not be my first guess.  I did own a timber frame home for my last home and that was built green for sure.  We are talking about building another one in a few years and that one would be green even though I own a kiln, so having dry timbers unless it was reclaimed would be suspect.  

The calvary  is coming - hang on!!  I hear the thunder of hooves.   smiley_horserider

[timberwrestler]

Yes, there's a 99.5% chance that the timbers were not dried before cutting joinery.

[Southside]

By the way, what part of Joisey are you in? Or should I just ask what exit? :D

[Don P]

I saw the thread earlier and was thinking, I'm just a carpenter too and at least yours could see the problem, ultimately we're guessing. If it concerns you, get an opinion you trust. I don't think from here we'll do better than the eyes on the ground.

I agree with Timberwrestler, look at the bearing surfaces of the beam joinery. It sounds like you have joists resting and butting on top of an 8x10, if so that started with 4" of bearing. I doubt that end is in danger, look at the other joinery, is anything in danger of withdrawing, unless its a machine cut frame with their 1" drop in dovetail ended joists I'm having a hard time thinking of that being an issue. Somewhere I have a picture of my finger in one of those drop in joist joints, that's every bit of 1/2" gap, those joists do concern me

The misalignment where joists butt is simply twist, as a tree with a spiral dries, it twists. The bumps in the floor sound like twisting joists are raising one corner and lifting the flooring over them. From what you are describing it simply sounds like a green oak frame that has dried. At this age it should be done moving. If you are seeing joints actively moving or distorting that would be a sign something is not right. Barring that if the flooring is coming off he can plane the joists into uniform plane and you should be done with it.

[florida]

I'm not a timber framer but have been a contractor for 50 years. I think you'd be better off getting your advice from an experienced  timber framer rather than a random structural engineer. Engineers knowledge is usually specific and would not include timber frame joinery unless they desgined frames on a regular basis.  

[jmeekel]

Thank you all for your comments and questions.
I realized I did not explain very well the reasons i was looking for help from a structural engineer to assess the integrity of my timber frame house.
 
The wood floor issue on the second floor is the initial symptom and I would like to make sure if the symptom is related to a structural integrity of the house or just limited to expected shrinkage / twist of the supporting joists. Or in other words, before finding out how to fix the floor, should I worry about a bigger structural issue? And if so, who would be the best person to come and look at my house to assess the integrity of the structure, and potentially assess how to fix the floor? A structural engineer specializing in timber frame house? A contractor specializing in timber frame?
 
The house is 26 years old, and we bought it 10 years ago. The house was built by Hearstone of New Jersey from Oak timber assembled on the site (I assume it was planned already – see attached picture). When we bought the house we did notice some issues with the second floor wood floor that had started to lift a little at the proximity of the posts. However, in the last 10 years the wood floor has continued to move and to show increasing gaps between pine planks and horizontal movement in the proximity of the posts. Without initial experience with timber frame houses, we have been concerned about the checking of the timber – more pronounced during the winter months – and made sure when we changed our AC/heating systems few years back to install a humidifier with automated humidistat control. During the winter we are trying to maintain a constant humidity to limit the checking – even though some time with significant drop in temperature it is difficult to balance between the condensation building on the windows and the minimization of checking. I use the term "checking" in this post to refer to the noise that the timber frame makes. In the last 10 years, we have watched the cracks and twists of the wood to make sure there was no additional visible cracks or twists from the time we bought the house.
 
I am enclosing some pictures to show the specific floor, some of the posts, girts and joists underneath and over the floor.
 
Thanks.



 


 


 


 

[Brian_Weekley]

Well, the checks (cracks) seen in your posts and beams is completely normal and expected.  No way to avoid that.  Looks like a lot of your floor boards have shrunk with a lot of gaps in between.  Doesn't look like they are tongue and grooved.  I'm guessing that some of your joists may have twisted causing some unevenness in the floor boards.