I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.

[MikeySP]

Will, I am getting to know my saw a little too intimately

The following is just sharing about my sawmill tuning experience. 

I spent two days, adjusting it, and readjusting it. I ended up doing a full alignment. This time, I think I came out the other side with a lot more understanding. With a couple phone calls with a friend and a half dozen calls with WM techies, plus reading and rereading the manual, I got it tuned... as far as I know, last night. I will adjust the debarker to match the setup this morning and cut a few logs to ensure all is well. 

One of the things I find myself doing is chasing accuracy. I was out there with my micrometer looking for that .125" (1/8") gullet on the blade to the face of the 19" bandwheel. Problem: when I would get it to 1/8" at say 9 oclock on the wheel, it was .155" at the 12 oclock. If I fixed that, it was smaller at the 9. This was a huge .03 variable... the horrors (1/32").  My friend said, put away the micrometer and get an 1/8" piece of metal and eye ball it. As I recall, the blades are at a few degrees angle inward, so perfection would cause it to lose its's 1/8" space. 

Next came the vertical and horizontal alignment of the band wheels. First, I tried doing this with guide wheels in. Eventallly I discovered (WM Tech guy) that the guide wheels are out when tring align the saw blade to be level with the bed rails. Will, I had the saw blade tracking beautifully at the 1/8" +/- mentioned above, when I made a vertical change to take out the natural desire of my blade to be diving ithout the guide rollers. So, I changed the dive in the blade to run horizontal with the little blade alignment guide tool attached to the blade. Great, I got that taken care of and my tracking was about a 1/4" out of wack.  This went back and forth and I could not get everyone happy with dead accuracy. Well, after speaking with WM tech sup, he told me "think in terms of eyeball accuracy, not micromter accuracy."

The blade guide rollers fix any minor errors in the blade angle to boot. 

I was able in the end to have the guide well under 1/16" level tool guide end-to-end and the tracking about an 1/8" plus or minus a heavy 1/32".

A surprise for me was that my vertical stops lost there precision. I had put a couple straight edges on the bed rails when I got the saw and with a machinist square, I adjusted them good. Well, some of them were out of wack by as much as 3/2" when I checked them. I readjusted them and poured on the torque that my wrench and 3/8 ratchet would allow. 

To be honest, the WM manual for this mill is a little wanting. But the tech support is really good and more than makes up for it during business hours and a wise friend after hours. 

I also noticed with a 6ft level I set on the deck that a bed rail was about an 1/8" low. I had not ever checked this. But with reading manual... and call to tech support for understanding start reference point, I was able to do that easily. 

All said and done, I would rather be sawing, but this was a great experience because I am getting to know the machine. Man alive there are a lot of adjustments ont his mill. I think I mentioned about half and they probably include 30 bolts as a wild guess. I would love to go to the factory and watch a machine being assembled to see the order of business. Or to follow one of their traveling tech guys around for a week. 

The full alignment is probably and hour job for a master at it. I took two FULL days. I THINK I can do it in a few hours now... but that time will likely grow as I forget how I did it. The good thing is, you should never or very very rarely need to do a full alignment.

Will, now to brew some coffee, make purchase decisions, and saw some logs. 

-Mike

[doc henderson]

I have only had to do big alignment once after a chunk hit the outgoing guide block and bent it.  I used a tape measure and a 6 foot level, and needed wrenches after fixing the guide roller bracket.  TK had a good "procedure" described in the manual and I followed it to a T.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Not sure what "Velocity" fuses are, but I will get in the manual for that today.  TTLLC, when you say bolts for jacks, do you mean the bolts that hold the outriggers to the mill? If this it the case, wow, that is a lot of force to shear that.  

Not really, try driving off with your mill with a jack still down. Or pull the mill over the curb or some other bump as you are also going up hill.  It will just feel like a little bump. Unless you run over the jack too.

Velocity fuses are those straight fittings on the bottom of your loader cylinders. These limit the falling of a load on the loader, unless they get broken off.  

[terrifictimbersllc]

I think crash means a violent blade break in a bind or running into something that stops the mill, and after this the mill is not right.

Yes, crash as in a physical event, not one that is remedied by restarting your sawmill like you might with a computer. One that involves a moving sawmill head, a moving log perhaps, or a moving vehicle. 

[YellowHammer]

A crash is a significant impact on the sawhead, generally the idle side, sometimes more specifically the blade guide arm, which is the most delicate component of the saw.  The crashes are mill shakers, and include rolling a log from the loader arms into the blade guide arm, mill head or debarker.  Slamming the idle side guide into the two plane clamp or even the cant.  Or doing a programmed drop and not having the debarker retracted enough, thus transferring the whole weight of the head into the debarker, causing it to squash.  Starting a cut while the head is dropping, putting all the weight of the sawhead one the idle side blade guides.  Having the near side toe board up and hitting it is bad.  Things like that.  The faster you mill, the faster your cycle time and the more timing is an issue, and missed timing means crashes. Crashes mean misalignment.  

A couple thoughts on alignment.  There are really two types, the initial cut alignment (cut flat and square to the bed) and repeatability alignment (cut flat and consistent to the previous cut).  

If you want to see how well your mill is cutting, make a cut, drop 1/8" (plus band thickness) and make another cut.  You should be able skim a board off so thin you can flex it into a circle and just about see through it.  If the mill isn't cutting consistent of there is an issue with the band you will see it. That test the repeatability alignment.  I do this for demos, to show people that bandmills can actually cut accurately and try to make the slices paper thin.  Always good for a few "Oohs and Ahhs." 

Then rotate the cant 90° and push it firmly and flatly against the backstops, make a cut, then another 90° and make a cut and again until back at the original face.  Then let the cant lay on the deck and ease it up to the backstops and see if it is square to them.  Or drop a framing square on the cant and check the angles.  Cutting four faces and coming back to the original face and it being square to the backstops is the acid test.  It won't be if anything is out out of true.

This is an easy alignment routine to run through on a log immediately following a crash or any time something is suspect without wasting time.  

Backstops get bent, typically from a log slamming into them or overclamping.

[MikeySP]

Thank you for the very instructive responses on crashing. Especially the clarifying of what alignment needs to accomplish. With so many adjustments, I lost count, it is easy to miss the forest in the trees. 

Yellow Hammer, I went back and was looking at the image of sawing a log in a cut order and wanted clarification on the outer edges that were not included in the harvested wood area. I was thinking it was just a general pic without the details, but now I am thinking it might be that the sapwood is no joy for high grade wood, so you do not even harvest it? I added your pic with my additions to the pic in red. 



 

[doc henderson]

Mike, it is cut off and therefore harvested, but you are correct it will not make good lumber and has bark on it.  It makes good bench seats and firewood.  Lots of people talk about what to do with all the sawdust and wood containing bark and sap wood.  There are lots of ways to do it, but in the pic he maximized the heartwood and even shows edging the sides of the outer boards.  The goal is also to not have boards with pith on the surface.  Depends on the wood type and your end use for the wood.  You can also square up opposite sides and then flat saw all the way through, but some middle boards will have defects from the pith. a wood worker can work around this.

[btulloh]

Those outside boards you marked in red are low low grade.  Good for stickers, bracing, or siding on a deer blind.  A lot of time for not much value.  Just depends.  I like having a stack of junk boards around for certain uses, but you have to balance the time with the value sometimes.  Starting out, you need to experiment with some of those sawing decisions and see how it turns out.  That's better done when you're sawing your own logs though.  

That's a grade sawing pattern and is more time-consuming anyway.  I'm sure others will weigh in on this, but most times you'll make your cant and then saw through, flipping 180 degrees as you need to counter stress.  Then edge your side lumber.  A lot of this becomes apparent as you saw more and more logs.  It's a learning process, and all part of the fun.  I don't think there's an end to the learning.

[MikeySP]

Happy Birthday Btulloh. 

Thanks for your answers gents. 

Poor choice of vocabulary on my part Doc. I meant to say, "what is the reason for not making four additional boards as I have added in red?" .

[doc henderson]

Yes and I was not trying to call you on that, just that you can find uses for that wood, but may not want to use it to make items along with heartwood.  The characteristics of sap wood and heart wood are very diff., in terms of color and density.  As well, as you prob. already know, real logs are crooked and not always round, so the picture is a generalization that you will adapt to your log. So you cut away what you know you do not want for boards and "develop the cant"  by cutting more or less from each side.  It is good to have a plan but that may change as you cut.  Sorry you will not be in Georgia, but am anxious to hear how your first job goes.  I am confident you will do well.

[YellowHammer]

Yes, you are correct, the picture is accurate.  Some species of wood, cherry for one, is sawn and sold for grade only if it's a "90/10 or better."  That means that neither face can have less than 90% heartwood, or more than 10% sapwood.  This ratio insures that at the other face will be all, or nearly all, heartwood.  As the guys said, sapwood pulls and causes board straightness issues, and a bowed board is greatly devalued.  If the devalue is caused by the sawyer by keeping too much sapwood in the board, then it's a significant mistake, especially in my case, where I may spend several, many hundred dollars, per log.  So then it's a big "Oops" if a board comes off the mil DOA.  The technique is called "Slabbing Deep," and is used to describe the initial opening face depth.  

The 90/10 ratio also applies to boards that need to be edged, so also sets the edging depth.

On some species, it's not so hard and fast a rule, but for others, its required to meet buyer criteria.  

[MikeySP]

Thanks Doc! I have been watching some videos on grading, opening face selection, etc.. I was able to find a few very helpful videos with Dr. Gene. There is not much video of him out there. Do you know if they will be filming his presentation in GA?

Thank you for the clarification YellowHammer!

D-Day is in 33hours. I am getting everything ready. I built a jig today to use on those stumps he wants me to saw. 


Ok, after reading "Woods to Workshop by Dr. Gene Wengert 3 times and watching a couple grading videos, the light bulb is putting out some dim light. But here are a couple quotes from the booklet and my questions: 

 "Lumber from stored logs is perhaps 20 times more likely to develop objectionable drying stains, including sticker stain." 

Why is a stored log in more danger of sticker stain?
 

"Lumber from crooked logs has high slope of grain (SOG). High SOG also results when the lumber is not sawn parallel to the bark. Lumber with such grain pattern will often warp badly during drying. Lumber with a high SOG has greatly reduced strength as well. Often, the strength is critical when sawing softwood construction lumber, so SOG is an important factor to consider when evaluating and sawing logs. Lumber with high SOG also machines poorly, with grain tear-out and raised grain common."  

Seems like one wants parallel to pith, not bark. What am I missing? Are these synonymous terms? I ask because I am always trying to lift the small end on my initial cut so the pith is at the same height and the bark is at a slope typically. 

Have a great trip to Ga gents.

-Mike

[doc henderson]

so you want to cut parallel to the bark.  In theory you would have a tapered piece left over from the middle (not sure anyone does).  In fact, if you split along the grain that would be strongest like old Roy Underhill (wood wright shop)does and then tidy up the wood.  Since you have the longest fibers running the length of the board.  Think about how well a crosscut cookie dries and how bad it cracks and how weak it is.  in a 1 inch thick cookie, the fibers are only 1 inch long and the strength is only in the side to side bonding.  Think of SOG as some percent of between strait grain running the length of the board, and a cookie.  Just like a knot in the board, it will not be as strong, tend to crack, and add stress to the board.  Not sure about the sticker stain, but setting a while, I know maple will begin to oxidize and take on fungal elements.  The take home is saw and sticker as soon as possible.  Just like a dull blade will increase surface checking in oak by 10x.  do not know all the whys, but it just does.  Getting excited for you.  sure you will do well, Not sure if Genes thing will be inside or out, but I am sure there will info on here.
so if you cut parallel to the pith, as you cut and the log tapers you are essentially cutting across the grain as the outside tapers.  Don't think about it too much, you have a ton of knowledge to put to use.

[WDH]

Yes, parallel to the bark is best.  Does result in a wedge shaped piece for the last wood on the deck that requires more time to fix.  However, if the logs are relatively short, i.e. 8, 10 12 feet and there is not a great deal of taper, centering the pith does not result in very significant slope of grain.  A very highly tapered log could.  Somewhat of a trade off between perfectly ideal and perfectly practical. 

[btulloh]

I'd say parallel to the bark is best only for grade sawing hardwood.  I generally center the pith on something like ERC and when sawing framing lumber.  If I'm grade sawing a nice WO, I usually saw the taper off when I get down to the knots.  All this becomes more apparent as you gain some experience.

[MikeySP]

Alrighty. First mornings damage  8)

Went well. Am doing a lot of extra duties, but very content to be here.



 

[MikeySP]

I finished up my second of sawing on my fist sawing job. Walnut, Hickory, and Locust. Have not cut into locust yet. Tomorrow is last/shorter day.  

Day 1: 700 Board Feet
Day 2: 1022 Board Feet

Before I understood the sawyer's roll from you gent's, I said I would help with the log handling, lumber dead stacking, etc..., so I have been wearing several hats to include chopping up some smaller logs into firewood. I see how this slows me down a bit, but I am very delighted with all I have learned and I want my customer satisfied, and I had given my word.

His logs sat on ground since last summer. I told him he needs to sticker and setup for air drying ASAP or he will end up with some high dollar firewood.

Customer is a very kind and hardworking gentleman, He is tuckered out. Last word's to me: "I am taking some ibuprofen tonight."

Question: How long does he have to get the lumber stickered and covered before he will be in trouble? His wood is a variety from 1", 2", 8x8 posts, and others.

[Southside]

Short answer, yesterday. It's getting warmer and humid, exactly opposite of what he wants green, dead stacked lumber lying around in. 

[MikeySP]

Thank you SouthsideLogger!

I was afraid of that. the other day, I told him that as soon as we finish sawing it, the next day it should be stickered, covered, off the ground several inches, but I was just parroting the idea I had in my head, not operating from authority... knowing why.

Today, he told me he was going to get to stickering in the next week or two and I said that is way too long to wait; but, I did not have a deadline for him. 

I am going to urge him to get it done tomorrow after we finish sawing around midday. Since he may have helper/day off issues driving him, I will offer to help him myself at a drastically reduced price since I will be a laborer rather than sawing. Just hate for my first sawing job to be an unhappy ending. 

I just bagged several pounds of Solubor for him. I will bring my garden sprayer with me as I may be part of the stickering party and setting him up for air drying.

My plan for air drying in his yard - I very much welcome a critique of this plan. 

• sets of two cinder blocks with 2x4 between them and leveled one with another about 36" wide = a 4" span since blocks are 16". Space these every 24" for 1" thick boards and every 36" for 2" thick boards.
• 3/4" stickers at above spacing over blocks.
• stack oriented perpendicular to prevailing winds.
• high spot in yard for good drainage, so no puddles under stack.
• cover stack with treated plywood and place some slabs on top to weight it all down. Slope plywood slightly so rain water sheds off rather than gets between sheets and onto stack. 

[MikeySP]

BTW, so I am able to give an answer, what is the answer to why it is so important to be done ASAP? Mold? Rot? SInce the logs have sat on the ground for 6 months, why is a couple weeks bad after sawing? I am trying to make sense of it all. 

Thank you!

-Mike

[doc henderson]

well in a few days, the surfaces will degrade if drying too fast so it is helpful to have the small airspace between the sticker, and in as little as 2 days with sawn maple tight stacked (not stickered)  I have had enough mold growing that it was hard to pull apart.  They may begin to move and so the stack and weight or banding can try to stop that.  I also think helping a hardworking older man stack and sticker his wood, may be good experience and advertising.  you can tell him not to tell anyone else because you usually charge for it or refuse to do it, but you are trying to help him out.  He will pass on what a great guy you are and give your name to others.  Job well done!

[MikeySP]

I like it doc. Thank you. BTW, I heard the get together in GA is really great. Wish I was there, but grasshopper needs to get the pebble out of the hand before such adventures .

[WV Sawmiller]

   Doc covers it well but in response to your question about the 6 months on the ground prior to sawing remember they were in log form and many of the little nasties could not reach them then. They can now. I know tulip poplar will mold and turn black very quickly if not stickered promptly.

[MikeySP]

Thank you WV Sawmiller!

Look in this disparity between the pics below.  It would seem the one has so little support that is will bow the lumber. The other requires many blocks. Perhaps the stack with little support is a temp location and is to be forklifted.



 


 

[MikeySP]

I found this statement online:

I don't cover the top pile - to me it's not worth the time. It's cheaper to lose the top row than fool around with having a good cover. I'm moving way too much wood to deal with that. I typically have 60 -100,000 b.f. on stickers at any one time. For air drying the most important thing is air flow, air flow, air flow.

This s interesting and instructional.

I have seen stacks with the waste slabs being setup on top of the stack serving as weight and rain/sun scree.  Yet, on the other hand I have read you need several inches of overhang, ergo the treated plywood cover.

If overhang is not an issue, I would like to use the waster slabs.