Hauling 2000 pounds up 18% muddy, snowy slope? Argo Conquest Lineman?

AlaskanWannabe · April 13, 2019, 09:58:38 PM

Howdy,

The wife and I are trying to figure out how to haul building supplies (lots of them over time) about a mile to our new property. The road we had hoped to build is far far beyond our financial abilities for gravel. We had hoped to get a two season dirt road with culverts and drainage that we could use our F-150 to haul too, but it has become apparent that isn't going to happen and our road has now been downgraded to a wide ATV trail and the guy making the road recommended we look into getting an Argo. He is a long timer and we're inclined to trust his advice but want to do our due diligence because of the price of the machines we're looking at (which are far cheaper than a gravel road).

We have a Can Am Outlander 1000 6x6 (helicopter delivered it) up on our property now. Our ATV trail should be finished early next week and then we will try hauling with it using our ATV wagon (no tracks on the Can Am yet). It can only haul 1200 but we're not sure it can do that up that slope, but we're gonna find out soon.

We can't afford a helicopter to bring in all the building supplies. We can't afford paradrop of the supplies.

We can't afford a gravel road that would allow our F-150 to bring in the supplies.

The terrain is Alaskan, high grass, clay underneath with soft soil on top, lots of snow and ice that breaks up and becomes muck for a bit before drying out.

We are considering an Argo Conquest Lineman with tracks but we haven't seen any data from the dealer to suggest it can haul 2000 pounds up our 18% mucky/snowy slope portion and that's a lot of money for a guess (dealer is asking nearly 50K for a demo model with 12 hours on it).

We would be very interested in a Track Loader Skid Steer that could tow since we'd like to get one of those anyway, maybe we could find a bigger one than we were planning on getting that can tow 2000 pounds and have it to do everything? That might be ideal!

Attached is an accurate 3d model image of the slope we are facing and the terrain type (imagery and model created using our DJI Phantom drone and software). Water pools in some places but with culverts we think we can minimize that, but given the Alaskan terrain there will be plenty of muck and plenty of snow much of the year. It's an 18% slope (rounded up a bit) in the steepest part before getting to the higher terrain.

Would be very appreciate of any suggestions! Thank you in advance for any help with this important decision. We can't afford to get this one wrong

Drone Imagery of slope & terrain: OFFSITE IMAGES NOT ALLOWED. IMAGES MUST BE IN FORESTRY FORUM GALLERY

Edit: couldn't get image to upload here, but the image link above should work

Southside · April 13, 2019, 10:15:26 PM

Welcome to the Forum,

Maybe this seems like a foolish answer but what about a draft animal or a team? They have been used for millennia in similar settings with very good results.

AlaskanWannabe · April 13, 2019, 11:05:38 PM

Quote from: Southside on April 13, 2019, 10:15:26 PM
Welcome to the Forum,

Maybe this seems like a foolish answer but what about a draft animal or a team? They have been used for millennia in similar settings with very good results.

Folks use dog sleds quite a bit in the winter. It's certainly a feasible idea. I think in my case, I don't want to be responsible for feeding or housing a living animal and protecting it from bears and such which would mean renting. And that would be a lot of scheduling and administrivia with animal owners (and transporting back and forth) for the many many loads we'd be doing. In the place I'm at, I try to avoid scheduling with others because it's not, shall we say, the most efficient process.

Southside · April 13, 2019, 11:08:08 PM

Well - there are always oxen, and "housing" can be in a freezer.

AlaskanWannabe · April 13, 2019, 11:13:20 PM

Quote from: Southside on April 13, 2019, 11:08:08 PM
Well - there are always oxen, and "housing" can be in a freezer.

That certainly would be an option. But it would require housing and protecting them for quite some time before killing and eating them. I'm sure hard worked and hard boiled ox is delicious, but I think a machine is probably a better fit for us.

Southside · April 13, 2019, 11:25:12 PM

I have never had oxen, but having raised enough beef I suspect it is not very good eating, however like the line from the original Star Wars - "It may smell bad, but it will keep you alive kid" :D Good luck with finding the right set up.

Could you set up some sort of cable tram system similar to those used to move logs back in the 19th century?

AlaskanWannabe · April 13, 2019, 11:35:55 PM

Quote from: Southside on April 13, 2019, 11:25:12 PM
I have never had oxen, but having raised enough beef I suspect it is not very good eating, however like the line from the original Star Wars - "It may smell bad, but it will keep you alive kid" :D Good luck with finding the right set up.

Could you set up some sort of cable tram system similar to those used to move logs back in the 19th century?

The cable tram system is one I've pondered for a bit. I think it would work well. But we'd have to build it on a public right of way and I'm not sure how legal that would be, and we'd have to negotiate it with a neighbor. We've got an easement with that neighbor for a road but not for that system. It's a mile so it would likely cost as much as the Argo to install so probably not a good fit.

Any idea on machines that might haul that load up? So far no machines have been mentioned but we have covered oxen and trams, is that because what I'm asking isn't feasible?

Southside · April 14, 2019, 12:05:26 AM

A tracked crawler would do that slope, and tow the load, but with a two mile turn that is a lot of wear on tracks and the undercarriage.

AlaskanWannabe · April 14, 2019, 12:09:08 AM

That's awesome, thanks for the pointer. Hadn't even heard of a tracked crawler before. Might even be able to rent one.

Crawler Carriers for Sale & Rent | All Rubber Tracked Carriers | Terramac

celliott · April 14, 2019, 06:23:21 AM

I have a bit of experience around Argos and we also currently have two Can Am 6x6 atv's at work, one with the snow tracks.

An Argo is a very high maintenance machine, they are not cheap to run or fix, we got away from them for that reason (large maple sugaring outfit) the can am is a very capable machine and so far seems more durable than the Argos. For our purposes.
The 6x6 with tracks is a gas guzzler, you may be surprised. Also very slow. They can haul quite a load, especially when a trail is packed but so can a wide track snowmobile.

What is the specific requirement for 2000lbs? Do you have items that heavy? Why not just make smaller trips?

A track loader or dozer would probably do it, but like others have said that's a lot of wear on expensive undercarriage parts.
My only other thought would be a tucker sno cat with terra tracks, but also a high maintenance expensive machine.

sprucebunny · April 14, 2019, 06:41:25 AM

I have a regular Honda ATV with tracks and use it for "logging" up and down hills. Have towed 3500 pounds of stone in a small trailer even up slight hills. Low range makes a big difference. The tracks one can buy now create a low range by having a small sprocket. Nothing will be fast up hill or very good on gas.

I also have snowcats and experience grooming alpine ski areas. Everything will lose traction at some point. More easily in snow and ice but also in clay/mud.

With all that in mind, I'd get tracks for what you have and place some semi-permanent anchor points above your most difficult spots to assist when you need it using a winch on your ATV and get a trailer I could put skis on that had some kind of crude braking system like a stick on a pivot.

Save your money until you get a better idea what works for your situation.

AlaskanWannabe · April 14, 2019, 10:16:31 AM

Quote from: celliott on April 14, 2019, 06:23:21 AM
I have a bit of experience around Argos and we also currently have two Can Am 6x6 atv's at work, one with the snow tracks.

An Argo is a very high maintenance machine, they are not cheap to run or fix, we got away from them for that reason (large maple sugaring outfit) the can am is a very capable machine and so far seems more durable than the Argos. For our purposes.
The 6x6 with tracks is a gas guzzler, you may be surprised. Also very slow. They can haul quite a load, especially when a trail is packed but so can a wide track snowmobile.

What is the specific requirement for 2000lbs? Do you have items that heavy? Why not just make smaller trips?

A track loader or dozer would probably do it, but like others have said that's a lot of wear on expensive undercarriage parts.
My only other thought would be a tucker sno cat with terra tracks, but also a high maintenance expensive machine.

Appreciate you sharing the Argo expertise with us. What kind of Argo were you running? Was it the commercial version by chance? I ask because the dealer says (and they always tell the truth) their Argo Conquest Lineman is commercial grade and has self lubricating chain and doesn't need to be greased like non-commercial models and has a beefed up frame. The dealer said its non-commercial versions are also not durable enough for what we're planning, so that's why I'm wondering if your experience is with commercial grade models or not.

The specific load is to haul in about 200 tons of concrete material for a structure. Lots of trips. Having looked into the crawler carrier recommendation above, we think that is a feasible option, renting one and knocking the job out over a week or so. Still, would love to know if a commercial grade Argo could do it and now we'll look into a tucker sno cat so thank you for that avenue to explore.

AlaskanWannabe · April 14, 2019, 10:19:18 AM

Quote from: sprucebunny on April 14, 2019, 06:41:25 AM
With all that in mind, I'd get tracks for what you have and place some semi-permanent anchor points above your most difficult spots to assist when you need it using a winch on your ATV and get a trailer I could put skis on that had some kind of crude braking system like a stick on a pivot.

Save your money until you get a better idea what works for your situation.

Great advice. We will definitely do this to get a starting point idea for sure. We definitely don't want to buy more beast than we need. Hopefully within a week we can try the Can Am 6x6 with ATV Wagon to try towing 1200 pounds up the trail and see how it does.

WV Sawmiller · April 14, 2019, 06:28:37 PM

Have you met the neighbors? Do any of them have equipment capable of transporting your supplies? If so you might see if you can contract with them to haul it for you. They may already have the equipment and might be interested in helping pay for the cost and maintenance of it when it was otherwise not in use. Good luck.

BTW - you can do a lot with cables and snatch blocks if there are places for intermediate landings along the way.

Bruno of NH · July 03, 2019, 01:30:42 PM

I'm late to the party
Have you looked at an ASV track truck?
The utility crews use them.
The snowmobile club i was in had 2 very tough rigs

AlaskanWannabe · July 05, 2019, 09:55:26 AM

I have not looked into this but I will, thanks very much. At this point we are thinking track crawler, but we will certainly check out tracked utility trucks. Much appreciated!

nativewolf · July 05, 2019, 10:24:11 AM

Put a bunk on a forestry forwarder, it could haul 10 or more tons per trip and probably do several/day. Self loading and unloading.

I am guessing there must be a forestry forwarder somewhere up there in the great north. They can do that slope and with tracks they can do it in bad weather.

woodfire · November 04, 2019, 06:57:37 PM

a cat d4 with 18" grousers might do the trick and you could use it to make your road

Iwawoodwork · November 04, 2019, 11:57:57 PM

the Bombardier Muskeg is quite a versatile machine that comes in many configurations and will climb and haul very well. I have a Bombardier "Jimmy" dozer that has the Muskeg undercarriage and it got around on steep ground very well.

Dakota · November 05, 2019, 11:12:10 AM

Has anyone suggested a helicopter ? For all the money you are thinking about spending for a tracked vehicle, a helicopter could do the whole job in about a half hour. My .02

offrink · December 16, 2019, 09:53:30 PM

I know I'm way late and hope you have found a solution. A skidsteer can easily fork 2000 lbs. Large Cat skidsteers can fork 4500lbs. Then again they are $90k. Seems like a solid 4x4 tractor with a wide stance and front weights should easily tow that weight and be in more of the $25k range with a front end loader to boot.

barbender · December 16, 2019, 11:39:27 PM

Why not just an old dozer like a JD 450, with some kind of trailer? Dozers were just pulling tractors until someone got the notion to put a blade on the front.

square1 · December 17, 2019, 10:08:37 AM

Whatever you try lit better be equipped with a stout winch that is powered in & out.. You are concerned with getting UP the road. I'm concerned with you not making it and then having to back DOWN the road with a heavy load in tow. It can get very tricky very quickly.

mike_belben · November 11, 2020, 08:06:20 AM

Sounds like this was a make you or break you job. I wonder how it panned out for him.

AlaskanWannabe · August 17, 2024, 05:22:33 PM

Better late than never on the reply? Short answer, we're still here but I feel broken. This place is tough, and I am a sissy who grew up using computers and not doing real work. The property is awesome, I have a squirrel on the couch next to me and a nuthatch inside the cabin on an indoor feeder as I type this, we never see people unless we take the mile or so trail down to the dirt road, and we have our first attempt at a garden outside on the deck growing collards, potatoes, bak choy, peas, lettuce and broccoli and such. It has been an adventure and it's exhausting for a jelly donut like myself.

How time flies and it was a fun trip down memory lane reading this early thread from when we first got the property. For an update...

We ended up getting the trail finished and then I extended it on our property using a track loader. We got tracks on our CanAm 6x6 and it works great, but hauling any kind of load just ends up busting the struts and destroying the bearings after a few loads. We also bought an Argo Aurora 8x8 on tracks and hauling any load destroys the guides (teeth) in the tracks and they're expensive to replace. Plus the bearings get destroyed frequently because we don't spend the time to play Operation in order to grease them like we should. Somebody above said they got away from Argos because they are maintenance intensive and I wish we would have listened. I thought it was just lube the chains every ten hours which is a pain, but no, you have to find a bunch of hard to reach zircs you have to grease frequently and it's ridiculous. And the tracks just can't handle side loads very well. It has been in the shop at least twice a year since we got it and it's currently in the shop right now yet again getting the guides replaced that are broken. Should get it back early next week at which point we'll take the CanAm to the shop given we just busted the front axle today. I'm seriously considering getting a horse.

We also bought a Kubota track loader and it got stuck trying to make it up here. Used a rental excavator and a chain to get it unstuck and then it made it up to the property. It has been great but no way it can haul anything up here.

We almost rented a track crawler but ended up not because of availability. We still hope to rent one in the future to bring up concrete but that part of our project has been delayed. We've had helicopters deliver concrete but not the amount we hoped given the helicopters we can afford can only sling load about 1800 pounds.

This is the first summer since the OP that we have not rented a helicopter to make several sling loads up to our place. During the time of the OP we were living in a tent with a poorly constructed log gate we made around it. Then we had a 20' yurt built and that was nice until brown bears destroyed it because the batteries running the electric fence stopped charging below freezing (and I thought no big because the bears would be sleeping). Turns out the bears aren't sleeping just because it's freezing outside, who knew?

Then we had a cabin built with bears in mind and it has been great, very secure. Bears are on the deck all the time but can't get in. We installed a really nice couple solar arrays on ground mounts that we designed ourselves and we mixed the concrete for the I-beams using a concrete mixer attachment for the track loader. Our solar has been awesome and even allows us to heat the cabin with an electric heat pump which has been incredible. We're actually considering buying a Polaris Kinetic on M3 Mattracks (or maybe a horse) but still researching...

I actually came over to this forum again today to ask some questions about a Wood-mizer LT15 saw mill since we finally made our first cut on ours today. Helicopter dropped it off on our property a couple years ago but we've only been able to move it to its current site and get it assembled this spring after we made a small platform. And after some fits and starts (we have no idea what we're doing) we were able to make our first 4.5" x 5" not-quite-square beam. Man this mill beats the chainsaw mill we used to make beams for our bush garage!

Oh, and we finally got running water (at least outside the cabin) this summer. We're still plugging away and hoping to really accelerate with this saw mill.