hydraulic questions on loader tractor Ford 4500

[caveman]

I went and looked at an older Ford 4500 loader tractor this morning. It has new hoses, no leaks, new oil and filters, starts and runs well (smoke a little).  The main purpose for considering this tractor is that it is rated to lift more than my Kubota M7040.  It has no rear pto which is not a problem for us as it will be used only as a loader.

My main question is, the hydraulic pump sounds like it makes a buzzing sound, is this going to be a problem?  The hydraulic levers lift, lower and tilt the front end although much slower than my Kubota does.  

I have been looking for a mid sized 4wd loader or a mid-sized telehandler but have not found any that meet my limited budget.  

If any of you with a lot of hydraulic knowledge or those familiar with these industrial Ford tractors have some advice or opinions to share, I would appreciate your input.

[Southside]

Did you get a chance to look at the oil?  White and milky from water by chance?  Maybe it was low on oil or the filter is past due to change?  Worst case what is the cost to replace or re-build the pump?  

Bought my 52,000 lb excavator for scrap price because the guy couldn't keep water in it - fixed a leak in the radiator and a $300 new head gasket later and it runs like a champ.  Some folks have no idea how to maintain stuff and you can pay accordingly when buying the iron.   

[Andries]

Kyle:
This how my Ford industrial looks/works for the FEL pump and filters:

 
The loader you're looking at is older than my 1992 version, but there will be a ton of similarities. Oil level, or filter condition could be a problem, because it might not be getting enough return flow. . . . which would cause the slow response to the controls. The buzz could be lack of grease in the U-joint on the front drive shaft. It picks up power from the front of the motor drive shaft, which drives the FEL pump. The zirc in the U-joint is hard to see - mine hadn't seen grease since it rolled out of the factory.



The oil reservoir is just above the pump, the big drop-in filter is for the FEL, the smaller one is for the steering pump.



The tag on the hydraulic pump looks like this:


 
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Southside's advice is good: x2. 

[caveman]

Thanks to both of you. I'll take a look at them when I go back over there. This tractor will probably see less than 100 hours a year but I prefer not to have to constantly work on it. 

[GRANITEstateMP]

caveman, my wifes family has a dairy farm. They've had 3 of the Ford 445D, one step down from Andries. Those are great, super rugged, tractors.  Is the 4500 your looking a regular ag tractor or an "industrial" type like the 445D or 545D?

[mike_belben]

Use a stethoscope or long screwdriver or prybar to listen and locate the region where the buzz comes from.  A pump can buzz from cavitating when the fluid supply cant keep up with demand.   A relief valve can also chatter too but that tends to be located in the valve or a standalone block external to the pump.  I have no ford specific info, sorry. 

[caveman]

Thanks fellas. I am questioning if we need something else with batteries and tires. Mike, if you were closer I would buy your supper in exchange for looking it over with me. 

[mike_belben]

Well. Ive gotten myself into worse jams for less.  

[caveman]

It has sold and I am almost relieved.  It would have been handy to have but it would not be quite as good as a mid sized telehandler or a small wheel loader for our needs.  Thank you again for all of the sage advice.  

[Southside]

Oh if you can find a telehandler you will question how you ever got along without it.  

[mike_belben]

We had an old 4wd lull years back.. It was pretty out of place hiding under a tarp in a residential backyard.  It had a 6cyl NA waukesha iirc and i think we put 2 injection pumps on it, wouldnt start in the cold and the powershift trans would just get stuck in "neutral" randomly.  Always sorta broke, glad it went down the road and was replaced with a new holland LS170 skidsteer, more appropriate for my father.. but it was amazing where you could crab that thing.  


At the JY there was a zoomboom and it was great when it worked right but the hydraulic parking brakes gave issues a few times.  There is A LOT of hydraulics on a 4wheel steer, 3 steer mode, tilt chassis telehandler.. I mean a lot.  Dont buy one you cant get the schematics for if you arent pretty dang good at solenoid hydraulics or have the $ for a good mobile guy.  An articulated powershift loader is WAY simpler and with much higher lift capacity given the same footprint.  But they dont have the reach, height or crab.

[caveman]

Andries, If I could find a reasonably priced, industrial Ford in the condition yours appears to be in, I would have a hard time walking away from it.  

Mike, although I find myself working/tinkering on stuff quite a bit I have no delusions of being a mechanic.  I will certainly consider your previous post before we buy.

[stavebuyer]

We had an old 4wd lull years back.. It was pretty out of place hiding under a tarp in a residential backyard.  It had a 6cyl NA waukesha iirc and i think we put 2 injection pumps on it, wouldnt start in the cold and the powershift trans would just get stuck in "neutral" randomly.  Always sorta broke, glad it went down the road and was replaced with a new holland LS170 skidsteer, more appropriate for my father.. but it was amazing where you could crab that thing.  


At the JY there was a zoomboom and it was great when it worked right but the hydraulic parking brakes gave issues a few times.  There is A LOT of hydraulics on a 4wheel steer, 3 steer mode, tilt chassis telehandler.. I mean a lot.  Dont buy one you cant get the schematics for if you arent pretty dang good at solenoid hydraulics or have the $ for a good mobile guy.  An articulated powershift loader is WAY simpler and with much higher lift capacity given the same footprint.  But they dont have the reach, height or crab.

My experience was like yours except; you are good mechanic. Buy or build a gin pole for the odd occasion you need the reach !

[moodnacreek]

An articulated loader with heavy pallet forks and a slip on bucket will do alot of work fast.

[Andries]

Andries, If I could find a reasonably priced, industrial Ford in the condition yours appears to be in, I would have a hard time walking away from it.

Well, I'm going to sell my 545C Ford. 
Now, it's tight and works well, and it's two wheel drive.
And the price is right, 'cause I've met you at Jake's place more than once.
I'd offer to drive it to your mill site in Florida, but there wouldn't be any tread left on the tires when I get there . . . .  ;D

[mike_belben]

Okay, the boom and telescope works!  You can put me down now...

[caveman]

Andries, head on down south.  We can go fishing and you can school me up on sawmilling.  Those industrial tractors do have some muscle. 

Mike, looks like the periscope is all the way up.

[Andries]

 
On my way!