The Right to Self Defense

[Patty]

Wow, Roxie I am real sorry about your mother-in-law. I can tell it is still very painful for you.

Marshall arts is just dandy, and folks should be aware of it's advantages. HOWEVER, thugs don't play fair. In many cases the odds are extremely weighted against the victom. That is why you are chosen as the victom in the first place.  No matter what shape a person is in and what defense skills she has, a 5' 6" woman weighing 150 pounds or less, would have a tough time against a 6' male weighing 250 pounds. Kick, poke, slug, all you want, he'd only have to hit you hard one time. I don't want to be in the position where he would ever even get close enough to touch me.

Guns laws in Iowa are very strict  >:( . You have to apply and then wait 10-14  days to even PURCHASE a hand gun. To carry, you not only have to apply, but also take a class which is offered quarterly, and alow an officer to determine what you are permitted to carry, and where you can carry it. This has to renewed on a yearly basis.
All of this has been on my mind alot since this thread began. We have chosen to live in a low crime, sparsely populated area, and I have to believe we are safer here than if we lived in Washington DC or Los Angeles. I resent having an officer tell me what I can or cannot carry as a weapon. I thought  about what DanG mentioned, but am not sure if that is the way I want to approch this. At this point I am sure that I am not proficient enough with a hand gun to feel safe carrying one in my purse. Lessons are needed, and it is about high time I get to work becoming proficient.

I felt vulnerable yesterday, in a situation I was in. I did not like that feeling at all. I was at a DOT getting my driver's license renewed. There were 30 people sitting there waiting just like I was. Finally it was my turn, and the lady waiting on me decided to go on and on about a piece of jewelry I was wearing; bringing it to the attention of every person in there.  >:(  Then she proceeded to repeat my address about a hundred times.  :
The dumb broad didn't realize or didn't care that I then had to go to my car....alone....and drive home. This normally would've been a nonevent in my day, but this lady could have easily put my life in serious danger. It happens that easily.

These are warnings. For me, I think it is time I heed the warnings.

[maple flats]

I suggest you write a letter to the boss of that woman. Explain what she did and the potential problems she could cause in doing this. She was probably too stupid to see what she was doing. It won't help you but might help another young lady in the future. Also, get your training and practice often. The police have no obligation to protect you, as hard as that may seem. They only get paid to buy doughnuts, I guess, and hand out speeding tickets.

[Bro. Noble]

We did some sawing for an ex highway patroalman and got to talking about packing guns.  He said almost every car in our area that he had reason to search had a gun in it.  He went on to say that every law abiding person ought to have one.  I'm trying to do my part

[Norm]

Robert I haven't had a chance to shot the new gun yet, 10mm is pretty uncommon around here so I'll have to go to a bigger city to get some. Once I've had a chance to try a few rounds I'll holler at you and tell you what I think of it. 

[Engineer]

I guess that's one good thing I have for living in Vermont.  No gun laws, really.  I think there's a waiting period but I haven't bought a gun since before it went into effect anyway.  Plus the local gun shop owner is a good friend, so it isn't an issue.    It is very rare indeed to see armed robbery or a home invasion around here, or carjacking or anything like that, because you never know who's packing.  I have a houseful of guns and we know how to use them, and they aren't in the places you'd expect them to be, either.

I just got done putting structural foam panels on my timber frame, and I saved all the empty spray foam cans that glue the panels together and insulate the joints.  A couple of the guys asked why I was saving the cans, and my reply was 'target practice for me & the kids'.  Just a couple nods & 'yup, dat's a good idear' comments'.  I wish it was that accepted everywhere.  

My personal comments.  The idea of gun control is ludicrous.  If it was easy and simple for the common citizen to have and use a firearm, the crime rate for gun-related crimes would probably decrease.  There will ALWAYS be the wackos who do something exceptionally violent and newsworthy.  However, making it difficult for Joe Homeowner to have a gun in his posession does NOT make it difficult for some evil dirtbag to get and use any particular firearm.  The criminal element will ALWAYS have guns at their disposal.    If you want to make "deadly" things illegal, how about  outlawing cars, pit bulls, cigarettes, bathtubs, toaster ovens and chainsaws?   ;)

[Larry]

HOWEVER, thugs don't play fair. In many cases the odds are extremely weighted against the victom. That is why you are chosen as the victom in the first place.  

A firearm gives the intended victim the upper hand only if they have the proper training and are prepared to pull the trigger to take the life of another human.  Little slow on the trigger and the attacker takes the gun away or you get involved in a wrestling match...and you are in a worse position than you would have been without a gun.

Mace, pepper spray, or dog spray with maybe a 6 cell Mag-Lite in the car might be a better idea for some folks.

Best home defense is gonna be a big dog with short barrel pump shotgun backup.  Just the sound of a pump action working may turn an attacker to jell-O...also the chance of a hit triples over a pistol...and the attacker doesn't stand a very good chance of getting the shotgun away from you since you have two hands on it.   You can use it for a club iffen ya run out of ammo. ;D

The police have no obligation to protect you, as hard as that may seem. They only get paid to buy doughnuts, I guess, and hand out speeding tickets.

maple flats...I don't think that is a true statement.  Most of em I know, are more than willing to help out.  Just not near enough of em and they can't be everywhere.  At the minimum we need a plan of action in case of trouble.

[Texas Ranger]

Unfortunately Larry, it is a true statement, according to the US Supremes.

the police are obligated to protect society, not the individual. 

YOUR ON YOUR OWN BUD.  Fortunately, local LEO's don't feel that way.  I was recently the victim of a property theft from my shop.  Vague idea who did it, but not enough to prove.  Took it to the cops, friends, they said here is the case number, it is a misdemeanor, and if we get really really lucky we may find the stuff.  they were honest, and I understand, mostly.

[Patty]

Best home defense is gonna be a big dog with short barrel pump shotgun backup.  Just the sound of a pump action working may turn an attacker to jell-O...also the chance of a hit triples over a pistol...and the attacker doesn't stand a very good chance of getting the shotgun away from you since you have two hands on it.   You can use it for a club iffen ya run out of ammo.

I totally agree, Larry. But what about a personal defense weapon; like when you are in the parking lot...alone, or in your car alone. Ithink about a lady that was murdered just down the road from us. She was driving home alone when she was pulled over by a car with flashing lights on the hood. Some kids had stolen a vehicle with a row of lights on top. When she pulled over they came up next to her car and killed her by repeatedly striking her in the head with a blunt object. The first blow didn't kill her. 

I think a hand gun is important and I agree that you have to be able to use it without hesitation and with precision. None of this shoot them in the leg stuff. My son gave me a t-shirt that he got in one of his training classes. It has a body siloette/bulls eye on the front with the saying under it: "Two to the chest, one to the head. We prefer them alive, but we'll take them dead." That is the shirt I wear when I go car shopping.  ;D ;D

[Ron Wenrich]

Let's get the basics out of the way.  I do believe in the right to bear arms.  I also don't care if you carry or not.

I do have some guns around the house.  Mostly shotguns and rifles.  I did have a handgun which was stolen when someone robbed the house with the big dog inside.  We caught the guy.  Cops says he's doing life on the installment plan.   :D

Personally, I;m just not that paranoid that I need to carry a gun.  Are there punks out there that will kill you if you look at them wrong?  You bet, but I don't cross paths with them too often. 

I"ve lived in some pretty low life areas around New York, and I have played in bands that have played in some pretty seedy areas.  The last gig I played had a murder.  But, honestly, I have never felt threatened.  I think they call it keeping a low profile.

In my area we had to put up with the Cuban refugee problem, back in the '80s(?).  I did feel a little threatened then, so, we locked the doors.  I have left my keys in my truck for the past 20 years, sleep with the doors and windows open and leave my house unlocked.  When I locked it up, I was robbed. 

I also live off of the main road, so that helps.  I have neighbors that have better stuff to steal then I do, so that's also a plus.  I just haven't been able to come to the conclusion that I really need to pack a gun.  It does come in handy when marking timber in some areas. 

[sprucebunny]

I'm like you, Ron, in that I live in a rural area and keep a low profile. I don't lock anything but the gate to my land. I don't actually carry my gun anywhere but in the woods and so it's in my car.
I keep the liscense up because our rights are being gradually eroded and this is one I refuse to lose.

[DanG]

Case in point:  Several years ago, my darlin' Bride took a little trip with a girlfriend of her's.  They were passing through Memphis on a Sunday afternoon, when they were flagged by a guy driving a church van.  He said something was wrong with their car, and got them to pull into a parking lot where there was an Autozone.  Linda was very skeptical, but couldn't dissuade the twit she was riding with.  The guy plundered around under the hood, and came up with a "diagnosis", got 20 bucks from the twit girlfriend, and went into the parts store. He came back with a set of spark plugs, and proceeded to change them. ??? ??? :  I can't imagine what sort of "problem" he might have detected from another vehicle on the freeway, that could have been repaired by spark plugs. :  Anyway, he declared that the problem was fixed, and demanded $200 for his trouble.  The gal refused, and he became belligerent.  After ranting and raving for a bit, he started to get back under the hood, which was still open.  At that point, Linda's fear of what might happen overcame her shyness.  She said, "Wait, I have what you need right here."  When he came back to get his money, he was staring down the barrel of her .38.  He decided he didn't really need the money, anyway, so he got back in the church van and left.  It could have been a lot different if she wasn't packing.

Would she have shot him, you might ask?  You bet yer sweet pattoot she would have!  Right between the peepers, too!

[Patty]

Good point there DanG. Your lovely wife used her head and got herself and the friend out of what could've been an even uglier situation. I don't go looking for trouble. I don't hang out in bars. In fact I'm usually in bed by 8:00 every night.  :     Pathetic, but true! 

Things can happen, though, even if you are minding your own business. All of us have moms, daughters, wives, sons husbands, brothers,....folks that we love very much in our lives. I want us to be aware that things can happen, and be concientious of our surroundings and be prepared for what could happen. Train your loved ones not to be an easy target. Teach them basic self defense, teach them not to be a sheep, or a timid little bunny. Be aware that our right to self defense is being eroded and stand up for this right. I think that is half the battle. Don't lay down and show your belly.

[Roxie]

Ya gotta understand that a low profile in a rural area doesn't matter.  There couldn't have BEEN a lower profile than Bob's Mom.  She was a dairy farmer all her life, didn't smoke or drink or cuss.  Believed in non-violence.  Lived in a very low crime area.  She attended church every Sunday and went to the store once a week.  Her life was full of children and putting up vegetables.  Her big outting was the yearly family reunion held in Elizabethtown PA. 
I hear what y'all are saying and I agree it helps lower your odds, but if a violent criminal picks your place (we've spent years wondering what in the world they thought they would get from this location) and he has a gun, it's either him or you. 
Let's make absolutely certain that it's YOU that walks away.

[DanG]

You got it right, Roxie.  Being somewhat isolated out here in the country does afford a little security, but it also makes it harder and slower to get help.

Bob, I'm really sorry to learn of what happened to your Mother.  I can't imagine the anger you must feel toward the scum that did that! >:(

[pigman]

I am somewhat scared of guns. Maybe because I have seen what can happen  when a person gets hit with a bullet from a large caliber gun.   I am not sure if I could shoot a person unless I was really frightened and had no other choice. I do have a loaded 30-30 in the house and if someone was breaking in I know I would be more than a little frightened. ;) The 30-30 might not kill them, but it would knock them back enough so I could slam the door. In my  basic training company I placed second out of about 250 with the M-14, so I think I might hit a body somewhere at close range. ;)  . As far as carring a gun in my vehicles, the chances of shooting myself or some other person by accident would be greater than the chance of me needing it to protect myself. : The way some hunters handle their guns really makes me mad.

[ibbob]

 Facts are that police do not prevent crime or provide protection.  They take statements and console the victims.

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
Robert A. Heinlein

[MemphisLogger]

When he came back to get his money, he was staring down the barrel of her .38.  

Gosh Dang, I'm sorry that happened to her in my fair city  :-[

I've been on the wrong side of a .38 myself and it's kinda scary . . .

We were leaving the parking lot at Soldier Field in Chicago after a Grateful Dead concert when some scrappy lookin' guy comes up to the window of my VW van demanding that we give him all our drugs.

Bein' as I was real high at the time and thought he was joking, I told him "sorry we already done 'em all" to which he replys "gimme all your money then" and points a little snub nose .38 in my face.

Man, I was trippin'--almost wet my pants.

Then I noticed that I could see the light from the street light behind him reflecting off the insides of the barrel and cylinders.

I yanked that gun right out of his hand and took a swing at him with it--I never seen anyone run so fast!

:D :D :D

[OneWithWood]

I gotta admit that the only times I ever looked down the barrel of a gun with someone else on the other end they were both 'authority' types. 
One was a state trooper who stopped me while I was on a date because a car similar to the one I was driving was involved in a hold up a few hours earlier.  In that case I was looking down the barrel of his service .38 and I could clearly see the bullets in the cylinders, his partner was out of their car with a shotgun leveled at the back of my head.  The date went downhill from there. . .
The second time was in Mexico.  We got stopped at a hastliy set up road block by the federales.  This time it was the muzzle of an M-14 supplied by my own government as part of the 'war on drugs'.  The very young kid on the other end was obviously nervous and spoke no English.  I only knew how to order beer and ask where the bathroom was in Spanish 
I managed to get out of both situations after a thorough search of my car.  Sure am glad I was not carrying, permit or not, in either circumstance.

[shopteacher]

Got pulled over once by the police as a suspect in an armed robbery.  I had a pea green pinto that had sixteen shades of primer on the body work.  I was coming back from flying and showed the officer my pilots log book to prove where I'd been.  All he could say was " I can't believe there are two cars that look like that". :D :D

[MemphisLogger]

All he could say was " I can't believe there are two cars that look like that". :D :D

I can't believe a single Pinto made it thru an accident serious enough to warrant body work  :D :D :D

[Tom]

OWW,
I thought you looked a little suspicious. :

If there is one thing it was handy knowing, in Spanish, with an M14 stuck in your face it would be "where's the bathroom?" :D :D

Carrying "heat" with a permit and being on the legal side isn't as bad as you might think.  I've been told by law enforcement friends that their biggest concern is that they Know.   

[shopteacher]

Code Select Expand

can't believe a single Pinto made it thru an accident serious enough to warrant body work

Actually the body work was from rust.  The body would rust about as fast as I could patch it.  However, I have to say without a doubt that was one of the best cars I ever owned and actually still wish I had it.  I use to run diesel fuel and gas mixed in it.  Was suppose to give you better milage, I don't know if that was true or not, but if you remember the 70's gas shortage you were looking to burn anything that would keep ya moving. You might remember a recall for gas tank explosions from rear end collisions, well you should have seen the ford dealer when I came in for the plastic shield to be put on .  I think they believe the shield was worth more than the car :D.  I paid a 100.00 for it and drove that thing for 3 0r 4 years with no maintance other than normal expendables. 8)

[DanG]

In Fla, you don't need a permit to carry a weapon in your car.  It must be "contained", however.  I think it has to be where it takes at least 2 moves to access it.  Mine lives in the  console box of the truck, and is in a holster, which meets the requirement.  The law enforcement types don't mind this at all, as long as you tell them it is there.  The only folks who get in trouble for having them are the convicted felons, etc, who are not allowed to possess firearms at all.

[Cowboy Bob]

Hey DanG.  Thanks for thinkin of me, ya don't know how hard it is until you got to go through it.  Time helps.  But there ain't a day go by I don't think about it.  Glad they got him before we did. 
Ain't it so!   ;)
Glad nothin happened to ya durin the hurricane.