Edging against a cant - modified the process

[WV Sawmiller]

   Now you guys may already do this and I posted this in an earlier reply but for many years I have normally edged the flitches off the cant I cut them from on my LT35. I would typically stage the flitches on the loading arms of my mill with usually no more than 5-6  to saw at the end sawing the log. I'd make my final turn of the cant and start on a mark off my cheat sheet based on the thickness of the lumber I am cutting so I end on a finished board. I'd saw down the cant till it was about 4-5 inches thick and slightly thinner than the width of finished boards from my edged flitches. Example: When sawing 1" boards I might stop when the cant was still 5-1/2" or 4-3/8" when edging to 6" or 3-1/4" if I was sawing down to 4" boards. When I finished edging the flitches I'd  remove the finished boards and resume sawing the cant to the rails. I found a stack of flitches on edge tend to flop around when only clamped to a single center point but are much more stable when stood and braced against the width of a long cant supported by 2 or more side supports.

The problem I frequently encountered was when I released the cant from the clamp it would spring up due to tension and most of the weight having been removed. Now what I do when I make my final turn is to clamp the cant tightly as low as I can (less than 1") then I saw the cant completely into boards but I leave the last 3-5 boards on the bed rails of the mill instead of stacking them as they are cut. I raise the side supports to the height of my stack of boards then stand the flitches up against them, clamp tightly and edge them. I get the same rigid support from a stack of the same sized/width boards as I did from the partially sawed cant but I don't have to release the clamp and let the cant spring up.

This is so obvious I don't know why I never thought of it before but now I get the solid support of a cant between the side supports and my flitches without releasing the cant at a critical point when it will not lay flat on the rails again.

When I am sawing with a helper I typically slide finished boards off the cant on to the bed as an indicator they are ready to ready to be stacked. If I do not push the board off the cant it is an indicator I am going to use to for edging support. This takes a little training as a good helper  is anxious to grab and stack the boards as soon as they are cut and tend to want to grab the ones I need to edge against until they understand the process and my system better.

If you currently edge against a cant I suggest you try edging against a similar sized stack of sawed boards and see if that does not work just as well and avoids the cant tension issue of unclamping a thin cant.

[Sixacresand]

Will give it a try.  Milled a 20' non straight, leaning sweet gum for trailer flooring last week.  The remaining cant did just like you described when I released the clamp for edging.  Thanks for posting. 

[WV Sawmiller]

   Yep, sounds just like mine. A heavy cant will lay flat real good when you put it on the mill. If you put it on and clamp it low it will sit there while you saw all the boards off but once you release it, it will spring up and you are going to end up with at least one board that is damaged or defective. I think I have seen where folks would weld a tooth on their clamp to bite into the cant then pull it down. I'm sort of surprised the mills don't design them that way but I guess they think that would damage the boards. I'm finding it is much easier to just edge against a stack of boards and I can adjust the stack lower and lower if I need to edge narrower flitches.

[VB-Milling]

This combined with your other thread from 2016 on the same topic has been enormously helpful to me.  Thank you

[WV Sawmiller]

   I don't know where I first read about edging against a cant but it was somewhere on this forum. I liked the idea and have done it for years but don't know why it took me this long to realize a stack of boards provides the same support.

[SawyerTed]

Often if the cant is tall enough I edge flitches against the cant and saw boards from the cant simultaneously.  

[WV Sawmiller]

Ted,

  I have often made my stickers that way when cutting 4/4 lumber. I'll stack several flitches against the cant and saw in 1" drops and every cut produces a board and as many stickers as I have flitches standing beside it. The flitches may run out and would not produce a full length board but are long enough for good clean flitches stickers.

[terrifictimbersllc]

That solves the very annoying problem of the stickers falling off the side of the sawmill.

[WV Sawmiller]

TT,

  How does it do that? ??? Do you mean because the board holds them in place?

[Sixacresand]

Once the cant humps up in the middle, sometimes someone can stand on it, push it back down and reclamp it. I have used a pipe clamp to pull it down.  
OR
If that fails, mill off the horns and hump   
OR   
Turn the hump down, block up the far end so the near end lies on the bunks, mill to the middle and stop.  Then reverse the blocking to near end putting far end down on the bunk and continue milling to the end.  I ve done this a lot on resawing  jobs.  Not fun, but works, Sometimes.  
OR
Cut cant in half and make short boards. 

[WV Sawmiller]

   I've tried pushing down on the cant but usually saw alone and pulling even a 4-5 inch thick cant down with a pipe clamp is a lot of time and effort spend. I'm finding just sawing to the rails then using the boards to edge against for the flitches is working better for me.

Maybe WM or the other mill makers will design a hydraulic ram that press down on the middle of the cant and holds it in place while we clamp it. If they do and it makes any money maybe they will send us some of it. :D

I bet if the Magic Man would quit worrying about his deer food plots and set his mind to it he could solve this problem for us all. Maybe there is another way to use our Magichook to do this. Put the chain on the side of the mill and the hook over the loading arms and lower them and maybe that would do the trick? :P

EDIT: BTW - I must confess, cutting stickers and boards at the same time can get tricky as it is hard to clamp a bunch of thin flitches tightly so cutting stickers and boards at the same time can prevent you from being able to clamp the cant tightly which was a major part of starting this thread so be properly advised. It works fine on stable cants like most softwoods but a springy hardwood clamp  cant may not be your best choice for cutting sticker against. Just wanted to be sure we mentioned that in the spirit of complete disclosure.

[WV Sawmiller]

Often if the cant is tall enough I edge flitches against the cant and saw boards from the cant simultaneously.  

Ted,

   I neglected to comment about this but I almost never do this because I typically saw my boards into widths of 2" increments and my cants are at off fractional thicknesses so this does not work well for me.

   Even if I am sawing true 2" boards I set my SimpleSet to 2-1/8" drops so the dimensions get out of whack immediately.

   My true 4/4 lumber I make in 1-1/8" drops so same problem. When edging I set my SS to true 1" drops and make a cut and when i see a clean edge I flip the flitch to the other side and remove when in 2" increments. I very seldom saw odd width lumber.

[SawyerTed]

I see what you mean when sawing framing lumber.  I saw a considerable amount of random width hardwood so it workouts.  

[WV Sawmiller]

  I generally saw in 2" standard widths to make stacking and tally easier.

[KenMac]

Will give it a try.  Milled a 20' non straight, leaning sweet gum for trailer flooring last week.  The remaining cant did just like you described when I released the clamp for edging.  Thanks for posting.

WV can I ask a question about the WM multi plane clamp ( I think that is the right name)? Will it not pull a bowed up cant back down against the bunk if clamped just higher than 1" and then lowered? That would be a good innovation if they would do that.

[WV Sawmiller]

Ken,

  I have a singe hydraulic clamp in the middle of my mill that clamps the cant against the moveable side supports and the permanent dogs. I think my permanent dogs are 5/8" high. I can squeeze the clamp tightly against the cant then try to lower it and if it is not on the rails in the middle and sometimes I can pull it down a small amount but is a crap shoot. There is just as good a chance the clamp will slide down the cant and come free especially when you are trying to clamp low enough to still have the blade pass 1" above the rails when cutting 4/4 boards.

  The softer the wood being sawed the more likely it will pull free. Also remember when you clamp too tightly you increase the likelihood the cant will twist up or spring free on the back side. You want it snug but not too tight and it takes practice to find that happy median including a fair share of thin cants that pull free and an occasional broken blade when one does before you find that point.

  It is all part of paying your dues like sawing into the side supports, leaving the side supports down when you load a log or leaving a toeboard up and sawing a long wedge.

  If the clamp had a tooth in it (and some people have added one) it would bite into the cant better and help you pull down such a wayward cant but it would also leave a hole in every dog board.

  What we need is some sort of bar that goes across the bowed cant to pull it down till it is clamped then a way to move the bar out of the sawing path. That is what others posted about a helper standing on the middle of the cant or pulling it down with a pipe clamp or such till it is clamped then remove the extra weight or the clamp. That is a lot of work and time for one more 4/4 board that is going to have tension in it anyway.

[KenMac]

Ken,

  I have a singe hydraulic clamp in the middle of my mill that clamps the cant against the moveable side supports and the permanent dogs. I think my permanent dogs are 5/8" high. I can squeeze the clamp tightly against the cant then try to lower it and if it is not on the rails in the middle and sometimes I can pull it down a small amount but is a crap shoot. There is just as good a chance the clamp will slide down the clamp and come free especially when you are trying to clamp low enough to still have the blade pass 1" above the rails when cutting 4/4 boards.

  The softer the wood being sawed the more likely it will pull free. Also remember when you clamp too tightly you increase the likelihood the cant will twist up or spring free on the back side. You want it snug but not too tight and it takes practice to find that happy median including a fair share of thin cants that pull free and an occasional broken blade when one does before you find that point.

  It is all part of paying your dues like sawing into the side supports, leaving the side supports down when you load a log or leaving a toeboard up and sawing a long wedge.

  If the clamp had a tooth in it (and some people have added one) it would bite into the cant better and help you pull down such a wayward cant but it would also leave a hole in every dog board.

  What we need is some sort of bar that goes across the bowed cant to pull it down till it is clamped then a way to move the bar out of the sawing path. That is what others posted about a helper standing on the middle of the cant or pulling it down with a pipe clamp or such till it is clamped then remove the extra weight or the clamp. That is a lot of work and time for one more 4/4 board that is going to have tension in it anyway.

Thanks Howard for the reply. My Cook's (and everyone else's) has what they call a bird's mouth on the stops to help hold cants down on the bed so I can't pull cants down either. I usually lay a beam or heavy board on top of bowed cants to hold them down until clamped. That works fairly well. 

[WV Sawmiller]

    What we need is something that puts weight on the top, not pulling down from one side even if you had a tooth in it. A ram pushing down holding the cant till the clamp was tightened then the ram removed would work great but what would it mount on/hook to?

  Clamping while the cant is heavy and its natural weight holding it down is what I am now doing and that is helping and why I started this post.

[Magicman]

I have been there and have had cants to pop up and out of the clamp several many times.


 
I carried this bad boy with me for years and even used it a few times.  That was before I realized that those cants are not worth sawing anyway.  They are a recipe for thick & thin lumber.  Bad cants can make bad lumber and are better used for stickers or just throwing on the 'customers' pile to do with as he wishes. 

[WV Sawmiller]

Lynn,

 That is what I was talking about when I made the comment below in post number 15. The juice just ain't worth the squeeze to spend a lot of time chasing one more low quality board. If we can do it quickly and simply okay but you can cut a lot of boards in the time it takes to install and remove something like a pipe clamp.

"That is a lot of work and time for one more 4/4 board that is going to have tension in it anyway."

[VB-Milling]

Questioning if I did the process correctly for someone with a manual mill.  I'm a visual learner 









If so, I really like it.

Edging the boards while taking the next board off the cant is something I can really get onboard with  8)

[SawyerTed]

Looks like you have the method figured out.  I often will do exactly as you are illustrating, cutting a board on the cant while simultaneously edging some flitches.  I only do this if my cant is relatively tall on the top where I can remove some boards without tension causing the cant to move.

[VB-Milling]

Thanks Ted.  I'll admit, I was having a hard time following this thread without pics as a newbie.

... without tension causing the cant to move.

This has been discussed in this thread a couple times and I'm not understanding.  The cant moves side to side or springs up off the bunks?  Please someone explain.

[SawyerTed]

The problem is when the cant springs up off the bunks, due to tension in the cant, when the cant is unclamped.  

WV Sawmiller's approach is not to unclamp the cant, thus, holding it from springing up.  That way he can saw the cant into boards and not have a top board and bottom board which varies in thickness end to end.  The alternative is let the cant spring up and take a trim cut to flatten the cant and keep sawing.  

In the end, the tension in the cant turns into either crooked or bowed boards.  The end use of the lumber should determine what you saw for either crook or bow.

Some of the springing due to tension can be minimized by sawing technique, rotating the cant 180° when sawing so the tension doesn't cause the cant to spring as much in one direction.  The tension can be created by too much sapwood left on one side of the cant during sawing, by a tree that grew next to an open area or by the log having a sweep to it among other issues. 

Sawing hardwood for crook rather than bow is another method to minimize the thick and thin boards when the cant moves.  It does take some experience and seeing the wood move as you saw it to get a first hand understanding.  Most of my hardwood customers prefer straight boards but if they have to choose between crook and bow, they prefer crook.  They can joint or saw the crook out.  This method turns the cant 90° when tension is showing the cant is springing up off the bunks.  

Sometimes it just doesn't matter what you do, the cant is going to move.  When they move in multiple directions at the same time can be infuriating.   

[Magicman]

Note that tension within the cant can/will cause not only the center of the cant to bow up or down but it also can/will cause either or both  end(s) to bow upward or downward.  

If your sawmill has movable bed rails, it is very important to have them fully supporting the cant from end to end with very minimum overhang.