Dunage ?

[Bruno of NH]

The bridge company tells me they won't use ash as donage and say red oak is better.
The guy was kind of a pain about it.
Am I missing something, I think ash is harder than red oak .
He says the ash will crush.
Your folks thoughts ?

[mike dee]

Emerald Ash Borer?

[ladylake]

 
 On the wood strength chart ash is 1 or 2 under white oak and a ways above red oak. Maybe the bridge company got some rotten ash or half rotten.   Steve

[Southside]

It's their gold, saw them red oak.

[Bruno of NH]

The yard manager says it's not hardwood enough   :D
I just chuckle to myself 

[Bruno of NH]

It's just I have a bunch of ash in the yard

[Nebraska]

Lower quality stuff will make good pallets.

[Resonator]

Check with flatbed trucking companies. When I drove we carried our own dunnage on the trailer, If I remember it was 8 - 4x6x8' pieces. Used them anytime we picked up long material, pipes, angle iron, steel bars, etc.
Another type we picked up at steel yards was triangle dunnage made from 6x6's ripped diagonally. These got nailed to the deck of the trailer, running two parallel rows down the center. Then big steel coils of rod or wire (we called them Slinky's :D) were loaded end to end like a pipe. 

[moodnacreek]

That's bull.   Many times they can use aspen for blocking and some request it because it gets light to handle. On light work pine is great. If ash is too soft it is not wide enough or needs a steel plate on top. I hear this talk all the time and give them mixed hardwood.

[Peter Drouin]

I got a call today from an outfit down south. Guy wanted 4x4x8 dunage. [red oak] and pine for pallets.  How much you pay?  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Told him that's what I pay for the logs.
I don't do wholesale. :D :D :D :D :D :

[Ianab]

Thing is they are looking for the low grade parts of the logs. That 4x4 around the pith that's otherwise only good for firewood. 

Now if you are sawing for grade, you have taken all the higher value wood from the log, and you are left with that core of low grade. Unless you have some secret market for Artisan firewood, what do you do with it? Technically you could actually be selling at a "loss", but if you throw it on the burn pile, it's an even bigger loss. A large mill operation might be running at a 10% profit, which is OK if you move the volume. But if they are throwing away that last 5-10% of value in the log, because it's "technically"  a loss, that could be the difference between making a profit. or not. 

[customsawyer]

This is one of the many reasons I don't try to saw wholesale markets. They will approach you, beg you to saw for them, then by the second load they start putting in request for better and better product. Explain to the customer that the price they are paying is for low grade mixed hardwood and there will be some ash in it. If they don't want any ash then we need to get more money.  This is one of the many reasons they are always looking for a new source. The one before you told them where to stick it.

[Bruno of NH]

This is one of the many reasons I don't try to saw wholesale markets. They will approach you, beg you to saw for them, then by the second load they start putting in request for better and better product. Explain to the customer that the price they are paying is for low grade mixed hardwood and there will be some ash in it. If they don't want any ash then we need to get more money.  This is one of the many reasons they are always looking for a new source. The one before you told them where to stick it.

I was wondering why they had a hard time getting dunage and pallets. 
This kind of shows why.

[WDH]

The pallet business is the bottom feeding blood sucking part of the wood business down here.  It is your blood that gets sucked.

[Ron Wenrich]

For most hardwoods, the pallet and dunnage are competing with the tie business.  We had no problem selling 3½x6 material as long as it was separated by length.  Any specie.  What you have to compare in price is how many boards you can get out of the core piece.  Considering that grade is cut heavy, you'll find that you can get a good overrun in figuring the bf of the pallet stock vs boards cut, and there is a savings in production costs.

Low grade logs make low grade lumber.  If you're not grading the logs, you might be paying too much for your logs.  I worked with one mill that had one logger bring in logs.  They were logs he couldn't sell anywhere else for that money.  Crooked, oversized, poor species, etc.  He kept the mill in logs, but the mill couldn't make any money.

[Bruno of NH]

The plant Manger gave the ok for ash after my explanation on strength. 
I'm getting a good price for the donage and pallets

[Bruno of NH]

I gave my prices not thinking I would get the job. They tell me they need a reliable source. My terms a check cut the day of pick-up. If that changes they will need to find someone else. 
Remember theses infrastructure companies are living high off the hog right now and I'm not going to suffer for them .
Retail in New Hampshire will be slow this winter. That's the only reason I entertained the offer to give a price.
I like working out in the cold and snow   :D

[240b]

i used to sell hemlock logs to a mill that made dry dock cribbing for a ship yard in mass.
  i think it 16"x16" blocking.   they also made giant custom pallets for a transformer manufacture.  I believe they did ok. :D

[customsawyer]

You will do fine but you have to stick to your price or increase the price if they want different.

[Bruno of NH]

Just got a new donnage order from the Steel Bridge company 
(40) 6x6x12
(600)6×6×10
For after the first of the year 
I might have to add another mill 
I have some ideas on the mill with added options to do other things with it.

[Southside]

I don't know Bruno.  Another mill means another sawyer, more off bearers, more waste, skid steer goes down you have twice the labor headache.  I understand wanting the work, but sometimes less is more.  

[SawyerTed]

Add a mill!?!?  Not without a contract!  Knowing where the economy is possibly going, I would want more than a purchase order.  An advance for log inventory wouldn't be a crazy request in addition.

[longtime lurker]

I like dunnage orders. And stakes, and blocking. Pallet too if I had any market for it.

I'm cutting this stuff all the time, soon as grade drops out, or I get a log that's got a blown out pipe or black heart, or sometimes just because that's all the log is good for.  We cut it and put it in packs knowing sooner or later someone will want it. Funny thing is that for all of it we cut there's never much laying around... it walks out the door a pack here and a bundle there.

Old boss of mine used to say a well run sawmill should be able to cover the wages bill on byproduct and downgrade. Dunno about that because I don't do chip, but I know that over a year my downgrade and byproduct covers one guys wages.  Sometimes it's leaving at below average cost of production but it's leaving, and just by doing that it brings that cost of production down. Bring down your average production cost and you increase your profitability on the good stuff. All from stuff many would just throw away


If I was butchering hogs I'd be trying to sell the squeal.

[Magicman]

I agree with Ted above, be cautious.  Take the orders, buy logs, and sell the product as you can while keeping up with your normal sawing activities.

Do not go into debt nor build your business based on one customer who could find another supplier for 50¢ less and leave you stranded.

[newoodguy78]

That's great you have orders coming in. One thing I'd personally look at is your profit margins ie are selling at wholesale or retail prices somewhere in between? The one thing I've noticed when the little guy starts selling to big outfits the producer becomes the price taker vs the price maker. Not usually the best scenario no matter what you're producing. 
Just my two cents but I'd play it real close to the vest in this current economy.  Focusing on total efficiency and streamlining the best you can may be a better place to focus your efforts rather than buying more equipment. 
Personally I'd rather deal with smaller numbers and sign the back of the checks than the front. Growth without efficiency is a real slippery slope in my opinion.