Cut quality issues

[Broncman]

I have been using a 10 degree blade that came with my OS31  Frontier sawmill.

When I ordered the mill, I got a box of 10 Norwood Sabretooth 7 degree blades.

I changed blades today and the cut quality is horrible.  Played with guides and tension , even changed blades and the second one does the same thing. The gullet of the blade is pretty even with the edge of the wheel.

These blades appear to have more set. One bent tooth on a 12 foot long blade would make a ridge much further apart.

This pattern is repeating perfectly.  Do I need to play with set up more or get different blades? It got dark and I ran out of time.



 

 

[barbender]

Definitely a set issue, maybe one or more teeth bent way outside the rest. You can drag your gloved hand across the back of the teeth and possibly feel the errant teeth, and then bend some set out of them.

[Southside]

Yup - definitely have a set problem.  From what I can see in that second picture your band is riding too far back on the wheel and that will affect the set on the teeth.  Bands will push back on the wheels under lots of stress and that can cause set issues.  

[Patrick NC]

Very well could be just 1 tooth. Your frontier should be turning the blade at about 4000 feet per minute. That means a 12 foot blade makes 5.5 revolutions per second. Is the box your blades came in damaged? Something heavy could have been dropped on it in shipping and damaged 1 spot on several different blades.  Correct me if I'm wrong,  but I think you mentioned in another post that you have 14hp. That blade looks very aggressive for that hp. 

[kelLOGg]

Ditto to Patrick.  Consider 4° blades.

[maineshops]

I joint my blares to eliminate that set problem. I have a 6 in grind stone laying on its side that I rigged up to adjust up and down. I cut .080 for the bands for my shaker boxes. A good cut minimizes the sanding to get them down to .062. Just a thought. Dan

[Don P]

I saw shaker boxes in that post. Not sure if you heard, John Wilson passed away the end of January.

John Wilson (1939-2023), the Shaker Box King – Lost Art Press

I had ordered copper rivets and roving washers from him at some point. He would ship things with the bill enclosed, you paid after you received the goods. I had forgotten and put the box on a shelf in the shop. Months later I got a note, and was mortified, I had not paid him and he had patiently waited for months. Not many people like that anymore.

I can't help on the scoring other than that looks worse than a bad day on the circle mill, that is bad!

[SawyerTed]

It does appear to be a bent tooth or teeth.  Where the washboard is will tell which side of the band has bent teeth.  Bent teeth on the outside will leaves washboard on the cant.  Bent teeth on the inside will leave washboard on the bottom of the board just cut.  

It is not hard to bend a tooth or teeth when installing a blade.  Teeth can get bent in the box during shipping, unboxing or other  mishaps.  Sometimes they come out of the box with set problems. 

With careful examination you should be able to find the bent teeth.  It may be more apparent than you might think. Just bend them back. Some use a dial indicator gauge to find the bent teeth.  

[Gere Flewelling]

I sharpen my own blades. If I come across a blade leaving marks like that, I stop using it right away and run it through my de-setting rollers to bring all the teeth to an equal starting point.  That is usually .020" and if no teeth appear damaged, I will then reset them to between.025"-.029". Then sharpen them.  I find that trying to locate that one over or under set tooth to be too time consuming.  I have had much more consistent finish on lumber using that approach.  One still slips through once in a while, but running it through the process again will clear it right up.  And thanks Larry White for the de-setting roller idea!  ;)

[OlJarhead]

In that pic your band is too far back on the bandwheel. The gullet should show about 1/8" or so.  

I'm thinking something is amiss here and I'd check that before looking at anything else 

[Broncman]

I sharpen my own blades. If I come across a blade leaving marks like that, I stop using it right away and run it through my de-setting rollers to bring all the teeth to an equal starting point.  That is usually .020" and if no teeth appear damaged, I will then reset them to between.025"-.029". Then sharpen them.  I find that trying to locate that one over or under set tooth to be too time consuming.  I have had much more consistent finish on lumber using that approach.  One still slips through once in a while, but running it through the process again will clear it right up.  And thanks Larry White for the de-setting roller idea!  ;)

Got any pics of the de-setter?  Sounds like something a tool junky needs!

[OlJarhead]

On a side note, I know WM only sold 10 degree bands for lower powered mills.  I haven't spent much time investigating that but it may be that the 14hp mill doesn't have the power to drive 7's or 4's effectively.  Kinda like the Turbo 739's that WM makes but advises they are for higher HP mills.  I've run them, like that but can't say if they are better than standard 7's and I think that's a function of my 26hp mills ability to take advantage of the deeper gullet.

Still, get that band forward a bit as it's riding too deep on the bandwheel.  At least that's what I was taught long ago ;)  1/8" of the gullet showing (roughly) and even or at least tracking even, on both sides.

[Gere Flewelling]

 
Here is a photo of my band roller. I use the blade advance part of my setter to pull the blade through the roller.  One time around is all it takes.
 

I purchased the solid steel rollers from Surplus Center.  Not fancy but does the trick.

[APope]

The marks are from tooth set. Definately should be tracking further forward. Does your blade contact the roller bearings on the back of the guides all the time? It should not. I really like running a 4 degree blade. I can cut nice full width boards in knotty SYP that are flat.

[Nebraska]

By far the best running bands on my 13hp Ez Boardwalk mill were 4 degree.  Smooth, and flat cutting.  It had enough power to drive them (sometimes pretty slow)... but the cut quality was much better, less wave on knotty logs.  I tried 10 degree and then 7 degree first, settled on 4 degree.  Still using 4 degree on my Timberking  now.

[OlJarhead]

I find the 4s are the flattest too though the 7s are faster but I also have 26hp

[Broncman]

Went back to the 10's and it saws smooth again.  14 hp may not be enough for the 7's and wide cuts.

[Mattjohndeere2]

I find the 4s are the flattest too though the 7s are faster but I also have 26hp

Regarding this post and your previous one jarhead - I just started running turbo 7s on my 16hp Hudson mill, against the advice of woodmizer. I have to say I absolutely love them, and at least in the softwood I have it has no problem with power, just need to run them fast for smooth cuts. It seems like I can saw faster than with 10s, and get straighter cuts through the knots. I plan on doing a comparison between the 10s I have and turbo 7s soon, just for a data point for those folks with lower HP mills. I have not tried 4s yet.

Went back to the 10's and it saws smooth again.  14 hp may not be enough for the 7's and wide cuts.

Based on my reply to jarhead above id be curious about woodmizer turbo 7s vs the other manufacturer blades you are trying to use. If I run the 7s too slow I get some of what looks like chatter on the lumber, but after putting a tach on my mill I see that I can push faster, lug the engine, and still stay within the power band of the engine, and get very smooth cuts. Regardless 10s are tried and true, can't go wrong with a sharp 10.

[tmbrcruiser]

I was cutting white oak earlier this week and had a similar pattern. The spacing was wider and the the cut had some wave. Upon inspection I found the bottom flat guide on the drive side had broken a screw. (Oh yea, my mill is a Baker and I run the flat guides.) This aloud the band to flutter leaving a similar pattern. Replaced guides and screws, using the same blade cured the cut issue.  

[OlJarhead]

Regarding this post and your previous one jarhead - I just started running turbo 7s on my 16hp Hudson mill, against the advice of woodmizer. I have to say I absolutely love them...

I can tell you that there is a WM rep back east somewhere (Maybe NC?) who told me he sends out all their mills with Turbo7's and found they work great regardless of power so I'm not surprised ;)

[SawyerTed]

Customers here tend to have a mixture of logs.  Pine, poplar, oaks, hickory, a few maples, cherry and walnut.  It just was simpler for me to stick with 4° bands.  

I tried Turbo 7° blades and they cut fine but I got less blade life in hardwood on the LT 35.  I did have about 30 T7s at one time. 

Some of the sawyers with higher HP mills really like the T7s. But they tend to run thicker bands as well.