ASV RT75 Unexplainable Fire

MTT Ranch · April 19, 2023, 01:11:37 PM

Hello everyone, we had an engine fire on our 2021 RT75, I know these are marketed heavily for forestry clearing activities.
It seems that the fire was caused by no plug being in the bottom of the muffler. ASV has denied any warranty claim, ASV Now says no plug is needed in the bottom of the muffler, claiming it's there for condensation to leak out but it blows straight exhaust. We've gone to a dealer and looked at a brand new machine which had no plug in it. When we started the machine it's blowing straight hot exhaust right on top of the motors plastic valve cover, wiring harness and fuel rail. The dealer just scratched his head in disbelief. Has anyone else had this situation? and does any of your machines have a plug in it? or signs of burning Melting ? Thanks for any input. The engine compartment was spotless, and only used for snow removal. 213 hrs on it.

barbender · April 19, 2023, 01:20:28 PM

Dang it. I don't know about ASV but usually when mufflers have a plug, the plug is in them if I'm not mistaken.

MTT Ranch · April 20, 2023, 11:18:47 AM

I only want to get the word out to as many ASV owners (RT75) as possible of this potential design or manufacturing safety issue. ASV owners at that point can take steps they deem appropriate to protect their safety and their investment in the equipment. Some owners on other forums have stated they have a plug in the unused muffler sensor port, but the majority do not. It is not known if it was plugged by a dealer recognizing the safety concern and using common sense or if it came from the factory that way.
Talking with a third-party fire investigator he indicated that there have been quite a few RT75 fires, however these units are heavily marketed to forestry applications and was told most are burnt up beyond investigation and it was easy to just point to the cleanliness of the unit as the potential problem. A fire in a forestry application could create a catastrophic forest fire.
I have no problem with the capabilities of the RT75 it had its quarks like any machine but overall it operated well and was my go to unit. I actually talked it up every chance I got, right up until the time it spontaneously combusted for no identifiable reason according to ASV. ASV makes a good unit, I think the problem is management and how they treat the customer after the fact. I thought going with a small company would provide better service I was wrong, the poor after the sale treatment seems to be common practice based on other owners experiences with ASV.

chep · April 20, 2023, 11:48:18 AM

Sounds like a lawsuit to me. Embarrassing on their part to deny it. Own up and make it right asv.

Mooseherder · April 20, 2023, 12:18:07 PM

You'd think the Insurance Industry would step up and narrow the cause of fires because the majority of these machines must be insured and paid off for the financing. ASV is probably making changes to the poor design as we speak. Not a fan of Lawsuits but if it burns up pushing snow then more Forests are going to burn.

barbender · April 20, 2023, 02:39:15 PM

I'm not a fan of many of lawsuits we see. But this is a situation that certainly seems to call for one. ASV should be tripping over themselves to take care of the customer here.

MTT, was your machine a total loss?

chep · April 20, 2023, 03:04:23 PM

Exactly what Barbender said. I'm not litigious in any way and generally wouldn't say "sue the 8!@#%^&*", but golly with dealer support like that and other fires and an obvious cause I would call my lawyer (I actually don't have a lawyer lol)

Walnut Beast · April 20, 2023, 05:29:07 PM

Sorry to hear about your fire. These fires in any machine sure put the chills in you!

Walnut Beast · April 21, 2023, 10:40:36 PM

I see you posted about it on the Facebook ASV owners. That is a strange situation of no plug in there but a guy from Australia has one welded in and claims it came that way. Plus ASV telling you CUMMINS designed it that way. Keep us posted what CUMMINS has to say

newoodguy78 · April 22, 2023, 12:10:39 AM

That's an awful situation to be in. My BIL dealt with ASV on new machine issues in the past (fortunately none as drastic as yours) he's a very reasonable fair guy yet extremely particular when it comes to machines being correct.A couple issues he had were denied initially but ASV finally came around and acknowledged them and were made right. Overall in the end both sides were happy with the resolutions.
I'm not a lawsuit guy at all but in this case their hands should literally be held to the fire in my opinion.
Wish you the best getting it sorted out.

Firewoodjoe · April 22, 2023, 07:24:08 AM

Well I'm no engineer but any exhaust blowing on any kind of components is a bad deal. Hope you took video of the new one at the dealer.

MTT Ranch · April 24, 2023, 05:19:52 PM

We rebuilt our unit for about $40,000 out of our pockets. New engine, wiring harness, and hoses.
ASV and Cummins still have not provided any letter or documentation that as designed without a plug and with exhaust blowing into the engine compartment directly on the engine is not a fire hazard. Not sure if they intend to, however I have continued to request documentation and have yet to receive anything. Cummins did send out a fire investigator along with a Cummins rep however I have not received anything back on that either. In the field they said the fire was caused by the missing plug, however now they say that was only a hypotheses. Other customers on other forums have reported they have found components are noticeably crispy in their engine compartment directly under the unplugged, open muffler port.

barbender · April 24, 2023, 08:31:06 PM

Did you retain an attorney in this matter?

Riwaka · April 24, 2023, 10:05:02 PM

Quote from: Walnut Beast on April 21, 2023, 10:40:36 PM
I see you posted about it on the Facebook ASV owners. That is a strange situation of no plug in there but a guy from Australia has one welded in and claims it came that way. Plus ASV telling you CUMMINS designed it that way. Keep us posted what CUMMINS has to say

The current ASV RT-75 Max sold in Aus appears to be a QSF 2.8 Tier 4 final from the online brochure.
For heavy equipment sold Downunder, one needs to lift the guards/ covers to see what engine (Tier 3 no def or Tier 4 etc with def etc) was installed before the machine was put on a ship. (the brochure wording on engines written for the website in an office and what engine is in the machine in the yard don't match at times)

Walnut Beast · April 24, 2023, 10:05:18 PM

Probably 5k to get the ball rolling. Then start digging in your pockets the attorney will milk it 💰💰. Most operate where you pay in advance and they have your money they pull from and they want it replenished and if you don't they won't move forward. They make sure they are in the drivers seat

MTT Ranch · April 25, 2023, 11:18:20 AM

I have received a "Notice of Defamation" from the ASV Attorney.

As I mentioned above, I wanted to get the word out to as many ASV owners (RT75) as possible of this potential design or manufacturing safety issue so ASV owners at that point can take steps they deem appropriate to protect their safety and their investment in the equipment.

After having to rebuild my unit I would like to protect the substantial reinvestment made and would not want to see a fire in another 200 hours on our unit or anyone elses.

It is my PERSONAL OPINION AND BELIEF that ASV does not want to address this potential issue. I feel I have been personally attacked, belittled, and now threatened with legal action by ASV legal for investigating the cause of the fire and asking questions of other ASV owners, ASV Dealership staff, and Mechanics. This (in my opinion) is clearly an intimidation tactic employed by ASV against its customers. Ironically, much of the advice I have received has been to seek legal action against ASV, yet ASV is the one threatening legal action against its customer.

barbender · April 25, 2023, 12:19:59 PM

Which is why I said that you should take legal action in the first place. Just the fact that they are not willing to help you with what looks like a serious design flaw says a lot about how they operate. I'll admit, I am surprised that you got a notice from their attorney, that's kinda next level but you must be making a lot of noise. But that may prove a point- if you would've got an attorney and went after them first, they would've been on the defensive. Now you are.

Southside · April 25, 2023, 01:09:47 PM

If all you have done is point out facts then there is no legal issue. Machine burned = fact, no plug in the motor = fact, no warranty coverage = fact. They sent a small town pizza attorney after you for doing this = I won't buy an ASV product, the plug issue I could get over, retaliation not so much.

So if Mr Pizza attorney is reading this, please spell my name correctly when you send me your letter, I really enjoy dealing with folks like you. No different than the ACO who threatened to charge me with the crime of "interfering with a hunt" last year for catching and crating a dog that was in my pasture with my cattle.

If I were you, I would double down, but I am stubborn that way.

Smallmill · April 25, 2023, 01:19:09 PM

I too will not buy an ASV after hearing about how they treat customers.

Walnut Beast · April 25, 2023, 02:12:33 PM

Then I guess you won't buy a Woodmizer with a Yanmar engine. That's who owns ASV and controls everything

rusticretreater · April 25, 2023, 02:31:20 PM

You should start bringing the big guns to bear. Contact your State OSHA board, Consumer Complaints department and Department of Forestry. Not just one, all three and more if you can find them. When they get two or three calls from your state offices, they will cover their butt right quick.

Be sure to keep records of everything you have done to show anyone that you have tried to solve the situation without resorting to legal means.

You want to document what you found at the dealership too. Are there any marketing pictures in brochures that show the defect? On websites?

Walnut Beast · April 25, 2023, 03:56:28 PM

There are 7.1 + members on the Facebook Skid Steer Forum and that's where you did a big post with a picture of the plug hole. It's been over a week and not one person has had a fire 🔥 on that machine. Every problem and codes those machines have if it's a trend you will see it there. Just saying

I'm not defending Yanmar/ ASV but I see posts like this all over with other companies where somebody airs out their dirty laundry to the world to try and get what they want if they don't get their way

barbender · April 25, 2023, 04:04:17 PM

Yanmar is pretty fresh to transitioning into ownership and management of ASV. I think most of ASV's previous management stayed in place. So for better or for worse, I think things are still being done the ASV way.

Honestly, I've never heard a lot of positive stories of anyone dealing with issues like this with equipment manufacturers.

I've never had any direct dealings with ASV myself, as I don't have one of their machines.

Smallmill · April 25, 2023, 04:06:50 PM

Quote from: Walnut Beast on April 25, 2023, 02:12:33 PM
Then I guess you won't buy a Woodmizer with a Yanmar engine. That's who owns ASV and controls everything

I feel like Woodmizer would correct the problem without the aid of an attorney.

Walnut Beast · April 25, 2023, 04:16:38 PM

Yammer is definitely doing things different. After a conversation with my friend this weekend that owned a very large Kubota/ASV dealership that sold it to the new owner that has never been able to get the ASV dealership for unknown reasons. He did say Yanmar and Kubota are not buddies so that probably has something to do with it. How would you like to be that new owner when everything should have transferred and they pulled that. Several millions in sales you would have had