Liability, Waiver, CYA.....?

[WV Sawmiller]

    I have never had anyone challenge the amount of lumber sawed or the charges. I have had many ask how board feet are calculated but that is just inexperience on their part. I cover that before we ever start sawing. I take my laptop with a blank spreadsheet already prepared with the formulas to calculate the bf and price with fields for blade damage, mileage, and taxes. When we go to tally at the end of the job I hand the customer a tape measure and we walk from stack to stack with him measuring, counting and calling off the sizes and quantities and I type what he says in the appropriate fields and when I type the last one in the built in formulas show the totals. I show this to the customer and we verify we have not missed any stacks or odd timbers laying around and I show him the amount. If he is a tax exempt customer he gives me a completed WV Sales Tax exemption form and I change the tax field to $0 and show him the bill had starts counting greenbacks or writing a check. 

   I frequently get and graciously accept tips. Only once did a customer ask for a veteran's discount for her and her husband (who were both USAF contracting personnel and seemed to think everything was negotiable). I did not tell them I had more active service than the 2 of them combined. It had already been a very stressful job and I had given them very favorable rates and made extra trips so I declined. If they had been active duty I likely would have given a discount. 

[Southside]

I am with you on the last part WV.  We were told to never ask for a discount, ever, if it's offered that's one thing, but never request it mostly because you don't know if you are asking a Medal of Honor recipient to take money out of his pocket.  

[moosehunter]

I sawed for a lawyer last Saturday and we had a liability waiver conversation over lunch. 
His opinion is that a waiver is useless in a court of law. 
It may, and I stress may, get the idea in the clients head that they can't sue but as soon as an ambulance chaser talks with them , well, ....
mh

[WV Sawmiller]

MH,

   That is pretty much my understanding too. A contract or waiver liability shows some intent but is more for the honest people who don't need one anyway. Hopefully it will scare the crooked ones into going to find someone easier to sue.

    Kind of like our security on our projects overseas and such - we just made it harder for people to steal from us than it was the neighbors so they would go steal from them instead. 

[fluidpowerpro]

The bottom line is that without insurance, you are putting all of your assets on the line every time you saw on someone else's property.

[barbender]

Exactly. Get a liability insurance policy👍 I would think if a waiver made much difference, the insurance companies would be pushing you to have one.

[Tom K]

I'm wondering who you get your policy from?  I've looked off and on and have a policy on my property etc but need to get an umbrella policy too me thinks.

We have our home/farm/auto all through the same company, they also offer an umbrella policy. Depending on how your insurance is set up your current provider may offer an umbrella policy, if not your agent should be able to point you in the right direction of who will. One think I thought was interesting was that in order to add an umbrella policy we first had to increase our auto policy limits. That may vary by state & policy holder though.

[YellowHammer]

Something else you may not be aware of is that very likely, if there is significant injury or death, then the equipment involved will need to be immediately taken to your insurance company's locked and bonded impound yard.  That freezes its state in time, because it will undergo inspection by both party's lawyers and experts for accident recreation, signs of negligence, etc.  Just like a vehicle accident.  I've not had this happen with a sawmill, but I would assume the same procedure as other heavy machinery and vehicles, and in every case the machines would be locked up until the evidence has been collected.  Having the equipment at a bonded impound keeps the evidentiary chain of custody intact, keeps it controlled by your insurance company not theirs, and they do all the interfacing with the other lawyers, as well as set and maintain the deadline to get the equipment back into service.  Needless to say, that could be many months, at best.  You might as well go buy yourself a new mill, or start looking for a place to live because if you don't have an insurance policy, they are coming for your house.   

If you use the equipment after a severe injury or death situation, then that falls under "tampering with evidence" and the civil lawsuit will become a criminal suit.

Trust me (or not), but the time to start looking for a lawyer is not when you get the cease and desist letter in the mail.  That's when you call the insurance company you have on your payroll who has been involved in the incident from the start, know the situation, and decide the next steps.

I'm not an insurance agent or lawyer, so take this for what you paid for it.  However, if you don't believe me, ask your agent.  

      

[Don P]

Do any of you have an agent that knows the customer is tailing the mill? 

[WV Sawmiller]

   My agent certainly understands that my customer is or provides the labor to off bear. I was very clear from day one that was my business plan.

[fluidpowerpro]

Lots of comments about the sob's that will sue you,  but the reality is that if someone gets hurt and they are looking at ten or hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills, they will do what they can not to loose their house. Can't blame them. By purchasing insurance, you are protecting them as well as yourself. Accidents can happen no matter how careful we are.

[Dad2FourWI]

I really appreciate the great comments, thoughts and experience.

We flew through this contract by the seat of our pants and all went very well.... we have been doing this for many years but NOT on client-site.... all at our millshed.

We already have a message sent to our insurance agent so that we are in a better spot for our next client-site job.

Many thanks to everyone!!!!
-Dad2FourWI

[barbender]

 If someone gets hurt and ends up with large medical bills, it may be out of their hands. The people they owe money to may come after you themselves.