Sawing thin “veneer”

[forrestM]

Thinking of sawing some 1/8" thick tulip poplar "sheets" that I want to try to glue onto an lvl beam as a veneer of sorts. They would be 14" wide. Anyone ever try that? Thinking i might need a lot of stickers to keep them flat and then flash drying it in the kiln. It seems like a good idea and I'm going to try it, curious if it has been done with any success?

[Old Greenhorn]

It's do-able, but check in with @doc henderson  as he has done a LOT of very thin stuff. Best that you cut it oversize and plane it after drying, even better is if you have access to a drum sander to get out any waves and make it flat for gluing. I do a bunch of 1/4" stuff maybe a little thinner to make boxes out out and such. But I always do final thickness after drying, just too many opportunities for the surface to get 'irregular'.

[moodnacreek]

I am going to shot from the hip and say you can't do it. However it is done somehow commercially. I once sawed 5/4 x 20 tulip in the summer and stickered them under a tin roof with plenty of weight. They buckled so bad they where worthless.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Why does it need to be that thin? 

   I've sawed such just to show folks it can be done but it will almost immediately curl/roll and often will want to split. 

   How much of it do you need for your project? 

   If you have to cut it that thin you might want to sandwich it between some similar or wider sized boards. Good luck. Let us know how it works out.

[jpassardi]

I'm thinking like Howard, maybe go 1/4" or 3/8" and plane once dry?

[SawyerTed]

Can you saw the veneer blanks from dry boards, then plane?  There would be fewer issues with drying defects. 

[doc henderson]

If you want if rough sawn then cut to the desired thickness.  If you cut 1/4 inch, depending on the species, it may chip out when you try to plane it.  this is when you need the rollers down, so the wood is supported by the bed, and not perch between the two bed rollers.  it will vibrate up and down, and not be smooth and tend to chip out. I have much sawn at 1/4 and finish it at the drum sander.  even the heat of sanding can make it curl a bit, so I alternate sides.  I put stickers every 8 inches and clamp it down.  for maple, I have fans on it, and it dries in about 4 days.  it will get really squirrely where the more grain character is.  I have tried using blotters between and weight, but it is a lot of work to keep changing them.  depends on the size and importance of the project.  I have sawn quarter inch for several folks to cover beams.

[doc henderson]

[doc henderson]

so, a few examples of thin cut wood.  most cut at 3/8th or 1/4.  crazy grain will try to make a problem for you, but it is pretty.  my engraver bed is 18 x 24 so my goal is to make stock the fill the bed and I can make 24 coasters in a run at 4 x 4 inches.  or a bunch of little coins for forestry forum friends.  I have a thread I will try to find.  but the wood dried pretty fast.  the coasters are taken down to 1/8th in the sander.  I now have a planer with a spiral head, and roller that can be instantaneously adjusted to zero, so may try planing again.  it is dependent on species and some unknow moisture content.  I have another oak covered beam but did not find those pics.  a room divider and a closet liner.  It is fun to make a thin cut like 1/16th to see if the saw is cutting well, and to hold up to the sun and light up the grain. some pics fought me on the turning, but I think I am getting it whipped. 

[doc henderson]

drying thin wood for coaster stock. (forestryforum.com)

[maineshops]

I cut thin quite a bit for my shaker boxes. All good information above. Be sure to joint your blade to nock don that high tooth or two to laminate the heavy scratches. I rigged an old grind stone laid on its side to do that. Dan

[nopoint]

Its not clear if the beam is in position or not..... If the beam has yet to be installed I would recommend glueing something like a 3/4" surfaced board to the LVL and then putting the whole thing on mill and sawing off excess. Off cut might even stay flat enough to be used on other side of beam

[chet]

I often use the above mentioned method for edge banding plywood and wrapping staircase posts.  A trick I've used to sand veneer when using my drum sander, is to place the veneer on a sled.

[moodnacreek]

Big difference between 1/8" and 1/4 or 3/8. I used to stock 3/8 figured soft maple. Doing 1/8 tulip can't be easy. And tulip [yellow poplar] is kind of nothing to look at even if you could dry it flat.

[Larry]

The easy way is to saw and dry 6/4 stock than re-saw to your desired thickness. Very few rejects and it stays flat.

I think this is close to what your thinking of doing. ERC glued to LVL's for door rail and stiles. I've done it to beams also with various species.



I've sawn it at 1/8" and than run through my planer down to .040 inch. Thinner the planer will start to munch it, yes it sounds exactly like munching.

I have played with green sawing thin but just too many reject pieces for me. Something really valuable I might do green, but I would expect to spray commercial (or home made) veneer softener on it after drying to get it to lay flat.

[Rhodemont]

I visited a friend yesterday to see a bed he had made for his daughter.  The legs on headboard and foot board are an arch of poplar laminate he made. Should have taken a pic.  He bought kiln dried yellow poplar boards for the entire project.  Used his band saw to cut 1/4 inch thick slices.  Built a jig of the arch with pegs into a sheet of plywood, coated each slice with epoxy, formed it into the jig, repeat repeat until thickness he wanted.  Then attached a turn buckle to the ends and pulled the arch into tension to close any spacing between the slices.  He used a formaldehyde glue/epoxy (?) to eliminate potential for long term creep which other epoxies are prone to.  It is beautiful.

[Rhodemont]

John sent me a pic:

[maineshops]

Great work on the bed

[doc henderson]

getting low on thin stock and had started a cant at the BSA camporee.  I thought it was too narrow, but most of it exceeded 18 inches wide, and that is my goal.  just got the mill back in its home and ran a few 5/16ths boards.  looking for the perfect drying thickness.  plan to try the spiral planer on this when dry. 

[doc henderson]

This is now night.  I milled about 15 thin boards.  I used a square and marked the top board at just over 2 foot long.  I cut with a circular saw at full depth.  It made it through 9 layers and left a mark on the last board.  took them into stack.  will see how they do at 5/16ths.  also, they dry so fast that I think I will make some shorted stickers.  My current batch are 1/4 wide and 5.8th tall.  there has been some warping and I thin 1/4 x 1/4 will be enough and be easier to stack, as well get more boards on the stack.

[Brad_bb]

I have at least a dozen thin walnut boards from 8"-14" wide and 6-8"  long.   They all have varying degrees of uniform cup to them.  Most are pretty uniform down the length of the board despite some have big feathered crotch grain in them.  I haven't been able to bring myself to burn them. I've been thinking that if you steam them you could definitely flatten them.  But I'd need some kind of fixture to keep them flat while drying.  Can't be metal touching the wood or it would stain.  Thickness ranges from 3/16 to 1/4".

[doc henderson]

could try some blotter paper and stack them up with added moisture.  need a flat top with weight.  the trouble is they are hardened in the curved state.  they may all just become equally curved.  they are thin, and with figure might be worth the experiment.  they should still burn if it doesn't work.

[Wlmedley]

Doc ,what kind of wood are you sawing? Can't tell from pictures.

[doc henderson]

It is maple.  had to crank the screws a quarter inch after the first 12 hours.  been OOT for a day and had to crank another quarter.  I will for sure make smaller stickers.  like 1/4 x 1/4 to make stacking easier, and not let too much air dry the surface.  only one edge with a visible ripple on the fan side.

[scsmith42]

We've sawn many tens of thousands of square feet of veneer over the years.  A few things that I've learned.

• The thinner that it is sawn green, the more that it will move.  The times that I sawed it 1/8" thick green, based upon grain it would turn into potato chips.  The dried 1/8" veneer had to be moistened with mineral spirits or something similar in order to soften it up to lay flat.  Green works fine with really thin sliced veneer (1/32")
• I get the best quality and yield if I mill into 5/4 or thicker boards, and then resaw after drying.  Very little - if any wood movement in the sawn sheets post resawing.  Consistency in MC% in the blank is critical though.
• Here is some of our veneer.