What does steam mean?

[Digger Don]

Doc, our mill doesn't have that feature.

In order to get back on topic, I'm going to say that the steam I saw is not necessarily a problem. But, it could be indicative of one. There's no doubt we need to get better at sharpening and, especially setting. As to the speed, we'll just keep increasing as we get the blade issues improved upon. At this point though, decent lumber at slow speed is better than poor lumber at a faster pace. 

[customsawyer]

I have raised more than one eyebrow at my sawing projects over the years. I think my friends have probably answered more questions about sawing speed than I have, at the projects. Folks tend to not want to mess up my concentration.   Which is a good thing. A few will ask why I'm sawing so fast. The answer is always the same. Because I can, and everything performs better when I'm at max speed for my mill and blade.

[Rhodemont]

YH your posts put in words what I have been slowly learning on my own.  I have never seen a band mill run other than my LT35 so have to drop down the performance of your HP to that of my 25hp Kohler.  I saw mostly red oak and work the 25hp hard without being close to your travel speeds.  But when I get everything just right I get that feel and sound from the mill that gives the nicest cut.  Increase travel rate and engine will bog down, too slow and get chatter, too much lube and get wet dust clogging up the cut and the engine bogs down.  

As far as steam I do not think I have ever seen steam.

[Magicman]

Water boils at 212° so I do not buy into anyone seeing actual "steam".  Condensation yes, but not steam.

[DHansen]

Water evaporation can and will start below 212° F.  The heat will aid in the evaporation process.  What can be seen is the water vapors coming off the item being heated.  And I agree the water will boil at 212°F.  Temperature differential also will come into play.  

[Magicman]

You are correct.  Evaporation meeting a colder environment produces condensation that we can see. 

[YellowHammer]

People can call it what they want...I think we are all saying the same thing, just different words? 

As soon as a band heats up due to a significant amount of increased friction during a bad cut, two things will generally happen.  If the log is more or less dry, the band will get so hot, black smoke will violently come out of the cut where the pitch in the log will literally burn, if not the wood fibers themselves, and the band will come out of the cut, black, burned and generally ruined.  There will be burn marks on the wood.  The band will be smoking hot, and will burn your hands if removed from the mill with bare hands before it has cooled.  Been there, done that many, many time early in my sawing career.   

However, in a high moisture content log, if I remember my old Thermodynamics:
As soon at the band body wanders and drags, the increased load is immediately heard in the power absorbed by the engine.  The metal band is absorbing the increase power as friction, and that produces instantaneous heating of the band.  The heated band is then cooled by the water in the log and if it absorbs enough energy to change from liquid phase to invisible gas phase, that is the thermodynamic definition of steam.  However, steam in its true sense is not visible, and it only becomes so when it exceeds the local atmospheric dew point immediately outside the kerf, then recondenses, and produce the visible "mist" generally know as steam, just as from a boiling pot of water.

Either way, in answer to the original question, "What does steam mean" in my experience, if a cut is not producing recondensing visible water vapor immediately in the vicinity of the kerf exit, and then it suddenly does start producing recondensing water vapor during the cut, then friction is suddenly increasing, and not good things are happening.   

   

[Magicman]

I 100% agree, but I have never had a band in such a condition.  If it got to that extent my by belt would slip and the engine would bog.  That is when I would have to shut er down and drag out the chainsaw. 

[Digger Don]

Jeez, I certainly didn't mean to start a debate as to whether it's steam, or condensation.    Whatever it is, I could see it and it wasn't sawdust. 

I guess I can safely say our belts are tight, because it will stall the engine. The one time I checked the blade, it was warm, but certainly not hot. Maybe, the whatever we're calling it, kept it cool.

[doc henderson]

DD I was suggesting you could look into a DC servo for your convenience.

[Digger Don]

I'll mention it to the owner, but that sort of thing is well above my pay grade. It would be nice, though. Is your throttle on the control panel, or the engine itself? Ours is on the engine.

[YellowHammer]

It's all in fun, and we all know each other, it's no different than debating which tastes better, grits or oatmeal.  (Grits wins).

[beenthere]

Also was not relating to the "steam" description, but what I found between steam, fog, condensation, mist as follows.


[color=var(--bbQxAb)]Fog: slightly larger than mist but far more widespread over an area and reaches much higher above ground. Steam: water vapour driven off boiling water. Hot, possibly scalding hot. Smoke: not water vapour, gases and particles given off from burning something. [/font][/size][/color]

[doc henderson]

The switch is on the control panel and the wire goes along with the fuel lines and other controls as well as hydraulic lines in the energy chain that goes to the engine.  the solenoid is mounted on the throttle on the motor.  I am happy to get more info like a pic or number if desired.  TK could also steer you in the right direction.

[doc henderson]

That is good Been there.  I think some of the debate, is what is visible.  If the air is at 80%, we do not see the water.  at 100%+ we see it.  and the 100% we speak of is relative humidity, so the surrounding air conditions dictate at what point we see the water vapor.   Hot water vapor cooling off in air will cause condensation after falling below dew point and be visible until it dissipates.

[Magicman]

Jeez, I certainly didn't mean to start a debate as to whether it's steam, or condensation. 

Not a problem Don, just a discussion where many members are offering possible scenarios regarding your phenomenon.  Even the contributors are also learning.

I notice that we did finally get to food and even Grits where we are unanimous concerning it's taste and nutritional value!!         

[Digger Don]

Doc, the pictures might be helpful, but I wouldn't know what I was looking at. the best I could do is pass them on to the owner. He knows electrical stuff.

I'm going to upset the apple cart and say grits is not unanimous. You guys can have the grits. I'd prefer sausage gray and biscuits. 

[beenthere]

I use the term "steam" or "steaming", when I see the fog arise from a freshly opened manure pile, or mulch pile. Or similar to seeing ones' breath on a cold morning, or the lathered-up horse that is sweating on a cold day. Steam is quite descriptive, so no problem with the subject title or the discussion. 

And sausage and gravy over biscuits is good, as well as grits topped with some soft-yolk fried eggs. mmmm good

[doc henderson]

just remember when you see a fresh pile of crap and no steam is coming off it, it is still putting off water vapor, that cannot see but you can taste and smell.  "food for thought"!  smell is just another form of taste.  hard to smell really dry stuff.  particles are interacting with taste cells in your nose.

[TimW]

Y'all are making me hungry. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Wait what? Where did I miss this declaration? Let's just say I fall in a 'different demographic' and would lean on the biscuits and gravy as a first choice.

 This whole conversation reminds of a slight divergence within my own family which is divided by hereditary lines into two groups which also overlap. There are the Lindtveit's on one side and the Elliott's on the other. We all get along just famously, but the joke is that if you ask an Elliott what time it is, after some mildly sarcastic comment like "Why, do you have a date or something?", but then will tell you the time. If you ask a Lindtveit what time it is he will likely tell you how to build a watch in the process. Guess which side I am on.

[doc henderson]

Prob. both Tom!!!!         

[Old Greenhorn]

Nope, good guess but no. It's funny but our family has branches in many corners of the world, and those kids developed within micro-groups, but being them all together and it is amazing how similar the parents raised and treat their kids. When I was young, uncles and aunts I had 'just met' would talk to me the same way my folks did. Very few in our families (until recently treated their kids like precious china dolls, they let them go out and learn things and get some bruises and then have a supportive conversation about how that might be avoided in the future. Stuff like that. I think that's why weather they are in Texas or Vermont or Maine I have been close to all my cousins, aunts, and uncles.

[JD Guy]

Doc, the pictures might be helpful, but I wouldn't know what I was looking at. the best I could do is pass them on to the owner. He knows electrical stuff.

I'm going to upset the apple cart and say grits is not unanimous. You guys can have the grits. I'd prefer sausage gray and biscuits.

With a side of grits and two over easy

[customsawyer]

Just to throw one more wrinkle into this conversation. Water will boil at lower temps the higher you go in elevation. Where I grew up in CO. it is 7600' and water boils at about 198 degrees there.