Wannabe Mill Owner needing help

[NewYankeeSawmill]

Welcome! I'm new to the game as well.
There are some trade-shows coming up, it might be worth a small road-trip to check everything out in-person? I called a few names I got from the Woodmizer website, and the folks offered lots of good advice as well. Talk to as many people as you can, see as many things as you can.

After much thought and consternation, and some helpful input from the folks here, I ended up getting a Norwood HD36v2 on a trailer. About $12,600 delivered to my driveway. Just started putting it together today, actually! !

[Andries]

Don, you're just messing with the new guy!
Now the poor innocent is going to be looking for a high, bald hilltop that he can build a big turntable on. He can set a sawmill up there and rotate it around as the prevailing wind changes direction. And then the rest of us will want to do that too.
Or maybe, a big honking fan might be easier.

[chet]

I'll put my 2 cents in here also. I got into this with the same visions as yourself, plus I am a very avid woodworker. I quickly learned a good sawyer can produce quality lumber with a lesser mill, just as someone can make junk with a top of the line one. I went da manual mill route as I had no visions of sawing for hire, although I have occasionally. I bought my mill new 25 years ago, and it has far more than paid for itself each and every year since then. Being a simple manual mill repairs have been almost nonexistent, but I did wear out the original engine. 
As with any personal mill you will find that more time and energy will be spent cutting and transporting your logs, stacking lumber, and moving slabs, than any time spent sawing.

[Ianab]

As with any personal mill you will find that more time and energy will be spent cutting and transporting your logs, stacking lumber, and moving slabs, than any time spent sawing.

This is true. The sawmill is only one step in the process, sure it's an important one, but falling trees and skidding logs needs to come first, and that's a whole profession in it's own right. Then you mill, probably dry, machine? and then build. So the sawmill might only average out to be one day in a week of work. 

So that leaves the option of hiring someone to mill the logs. That's a valid plan, and as others have suggested might be a good learning / experiment. It will either convince you that you do actually want a mill, or that you should keep hiring the work out. Either way, you have paid a small charge, and have a stack of sawed boards, so you aren't losing out. 

And just to muddy the waters, look at the Swingblade mills for this sort of operation. Price wise they fit in between the small manual band mills, and the more expensive hydraulic machines. With a tractor or other machinery, and couple of helpers, they can produce like a more expensive band mill. Take them out to the landing site and set up in ~15 mins, then pack it up back in the shed until next week / month. My mill is only a small hobby version, and 600 acres would grow trees faster than I could saw them. But with the right setup and support equipment, any swingblade can cut a LOT of lumber. 

[Digger Don]

Andries, I didn't mean to be messing with the new guy. Your turntable idea is a good one, though. They used to turn steam locomotives on them, so a sawmill should be pretty easy. I'll match your fan with a 10MPH breeze any day, though.   Granted, your fan would be more controllable. Don

[Nebraska]

Take Troy up on his offer to look, he has one of the best built manual mills out there.  It won't break the bank as far as cost, set it up on a bit of a platform with a moderately sized tractor and loader you can accomplish a lot.  Good luck on your adventure. 

[Buickal]

@TroyC

Thanks for your offer and I would absolutely love to take you up on it to get an actual feel for what's involved in DIY milling.  I can offer some additional info that might be helpful

I plan to mill for my needs only and am not looking to earn money from milling.  So I guess I would be a hobby millet.  I don't expect to be milling vast amounts of lumber....just whatever I need to do what I want.  I have learned that drying is critical and a somewhat lengthy process (at least if air dried). I was told a year for every inch of thickness.  So that means cutting lumber well before needing it so it can be dry. 

I'm not a young guy anymore but I do know that the more bells and whistles something has the more can go wrong and need repair. Like modern autos which are as much computer as they are vehicles.  And those fixes are never cheap.  The more dependent I am on someone else fixing something I see as a weak point because finding people who CAN and WILL do what is needed is difficult.  I had to call 5 pressure washing people to get to the one who actually cam and did my 81 year old moms house for her.   I like simple even if it's more effort or time.  I like things that work when needed as much as possible.  A navy buddy of mine told me an admiral once told him if you can't do it then I can't use you.  I feel that way about equipment. 

With 600 acres, I want the mill portable so I can get it to the logs as opposed to moving logs to the mill.  To me it seems easier to transport cut lumber than uncut logs.  I could be missing something though so this is just my initial inexperienced thinking.

While I don't have a budget, I do focus on cost from a smart spend focus.  The item I buy has to provide a smart value proposition for the money spent.  For example, I have a log splitter and specifically bought one with a honda engine. I just find Hondas to be the best engines for small equipment. I like stihl lawn equipment because it always cranks and works best. To me the extra money spent on those is worth the spend.  Buy once cry once.  Every time I have ever tried to buy cheap to save money it cost me more money. 

I would love to chat and set up a day when you are there to come learn and help you with any projects you may have.

[moodnacreek]

Piles of drying lumber spread out  where cut does not work out so well. Transporting green lumber is much more work than stacking [and sticking] at a fixed location. A sawmill should be set up in the corner of a flat lot and that lot becomes a lumber yard. Less work in the beginning and better in the end.

[jpassardi]

Welcome!
I would tend to agree with what Moodna said above provided you have or will make roads and have large enough equipment to move logs efficiently. Bear in mind it's a material handling operation more so than milling, do all you can to set up the mill yard to make the material handling more efficient. This includes waste slabs and sawdust. Forks on a good sized machine are a must have.

[Magicman]

I have property and have harvested/sawn many of my own trees for my own use.  I have taken the sawmill to logs which avoids skidding and also leaves the waste in the woods, but much more often, I have left the sawmill in a more desirable location and skidded the log there.

For customer sawing, it has been done both ways and I vividly remember two of those excursions traveling down wooded roads and wondering what was at the other end and wondering how I was going to get out.    Obviously everything was OK, and my truck seat cover gradually lost the butt creases.

[chet]

I too think you will find it much more advantageous to move a few logs than to move a bunch of green lumber. Also much nicer having your mill in a dedicated shelter with all needed tools close at hand. Your logs on a deck ready to feed onto your mill when ever you get the time to tackle them. I do much of my milling when weather (or lack of daylight) does not permit me to do much of anything else outdoors.
If you do opt for a manual mill or a smaller hydro mill, I would strongly suggest you get it with the largest engine they offer. 

[Buickal]

I have taken the sawmill to logs which avoids skidding and also leaves the waste in the woods, but much more often, I have left the sawmill in a more desirable locaton....

Given you have done both, do you think the mobility of your mill was a necessary option?  If the prevailing opinion is that skidding logs to process as a central location set up for milling, maybe mobility is a waste of money. 

[TroyC]

Buickal- check your messages at top of the page.

[Brad_bb]

-Where will you keep your milled wood, under roof is best.  
-How will you stack your wood?  Make stickers ahead of time so they can be dry, build lumber pallets so you can stack vertically.  Standardize your lengths and pallet widths.  Unless I have a specific use for something longer, the longest I cut is 8'6".  It's difficult storing longer stuff.  You have to have a dedicated space for it.
-Do you have a good machine for moving pallets and logs.  I have a rough terrain forklift for tighter turning than a FEL and less bouncy
-My standardized pallets which hold lumber 4'6",6'6", and 8'8" will stack nicely in a local guy's Nyle kiln.  I air dry everything first and then take a full kiln load to him to dry(which in his case is 22'x88" high).  I use Kubinec strapping on all my lumber pallets and with the ratcheting tool can be tightened as it air dries and dries further in the kiln.
Lumber pallets
-Use good hardwood stickers.  I plane all of mine 3/4 inch thick for 4/4 and 5/4 lumber.  For slabs or thick stuff 2" and better I'd use 1.5" thick stickers.  I don't mind using pine for those because I don't have near as much and 1.5" stickers in pine are less likely to break than 3/4".
-I have an LT15 woodmizer.  It's manual.  I have it because I do a lot of beams and use woodmizers mill mounted planer to joint the beams and this is the only mill it runs on.  Otherwise I'd have a hydraulic wide mill.   If you want to quarter saw logs, it's best on a wide hydraulic mill and to Reverse Roll Quarter Saw (RRQS) prime grade/clear logs.

[SawyerTed]

Buickal you are asking good questions.  Thinking about how the mill will be used helps zero in on what you need.  One sawyer's needs will likely be different than yours but there's absolutely several forum members who will match yours.

The good thing about the portable mills, besides the option to move them, is the working height.  Unless a raised foundation is built for the small stationary mills, they can be low for lifting heavy materials off the bed.  Of course a raised foundation is not difficult to build but the costs can't be ignored.  Not everyone has a convenient concrete slab available. 

The reverse is also true.  The lower manual mills make putting logs on the bed a bit easier.  Equipment to lift logs isn't cheap. 

The best of both worlds is the portable mill with an included hydraulic log lift.  Some mills use winches and ramps some use log decks to load logs.

Pictured below is a 34" diameter white oak log 10' long.  Not only does the 3,900 pound log have to be lifted to the bed, 3,900 pounds of material has to be removed-waste and lumber.  That's 7,800 pounds of lifting just to get the lumber off the mill out of one log.

In a day of sawing let's say 10 logs averaging 2,500 pounds each gets cut into framing lumber and  siding.  It's easy math to know 50,000 pounds of lifting has to be done just to put the lumber in a stack beside the mill.

Just some food for thought. 

Some things are bells and whistles depending upon how you use a mill.  Those same things are essential features for other sawmill operations. 

[chet]

My mill was purchased without a tow package to save money. I added tandem axles, hitch and lights,  myself saving enough to purchase a sharpener and setter.    

[Buickal]

@Brad_bb

thanks. There is a lot of good info in your response I need to research to better understand.  Wood pallets and stickers and a few other terms you used are unknown to me but I will do my homework to learn

[Buickal]

My mill was purchased without a tow package to save money. I added tandem axles, hitch and lights,  myself saving enough to purchase a sharpener and setter.   

If I understand correctly, you just attached axels, hitch and lights to the mill itself?  Essentially make the mill its own trailer in a sense?  That's pretty ingenious.  Since mine would not be towed on the road but only throughout my property that seems a cheap option for that kind of mobility.  I wouldn't even need the lights.  I need to look up what a setter is as that's a new term to me. 

[GAB]

Buickal:
Concerning mill mobility, also think resale.
You have no idea what cards old mother nature may deal you in the future.
Note: A blade setter is imo a necessary piece of equipment.
GAB

[chet]

@Buickal, a setter is a tool used to offset the teeth on your sawmill blades, usually done after sharpening them.

[jpassardi]

Buickal, Bear in mind that in order to put axles under a mill it needs to have a strong enough bed such as a box section. An angle iron bed would first need to have a box/rectangle tube frame added under it.
My LT 15 came with a removable axle (option). I set it permanently on and mounted it to 12x12 oak cross cribbing and took the axle off so I don't have to hit my shins into or walk around it every pass.

[alecs]

How are we 45 posts into this thread and we still don't know what kind of Buick we're talking about?
Some folks call me Al and I used to have a '69 Electra 225!

In terms of moving the mill to the logs - I have a trailer on my mill and haven't moved it yet.  Unless the log is too big to move to the mill, it's easier to move one heavy thing than move lots of smaller heavy things.  In all my work with logs, I've found that you come out ahead the fewer times you have to handle or move each piece.  So I stack/sticker my boards directly onto pallets, each pallet ideally having the same type of lumber on it.  Then I stack the pallets.  Can move them all with the loader.  Milling in the woods means handling each board at least one more time.

I hired sawyers for a total of six days before getting my own mill (Woodland Mills 130 Max).  Six days were spread out over a period of 8 or 9 years.  Filled up my lumber yard each time, and only thought about milling as I either had a lead on a big supply of logs or if I ran out of lumber.  

Another thing to think about:  Local sawmills around me offer pretty much the same stuff as I can make myself (roughsawn pine, some hardwoods), and the price per bf is well less than my cost (if I place a value on my own labor).  So the idea of me dragging logs to my mill and breathing dust and hurting my back to make my own boards is pretty silly from an economics standpoint.  I don't regret the decision to get my own mill, but I can't really justify it from a financial point of view.  It's a fun hobby, not a money maker.  

I don't know about the economics of your 600 acres, but would you be able to have a logger come and harvest some of your trees and would that money allow you to do other things (like buy lumber or hire a mill?)  I'm not trying to throw cold water on your idea, just want to suggest thinking about your reasons for doing it....

[OlJarhead]

Welcome to FF the best place in the world to learn from!

I started out much like you.  I had 20 acres of mostly ponderosa pine and a desire to make my own lumber.  I bought a chainsaw mill and within a year I bought a Wood-Mizer LT10.  I made a lot of lumber with that little mill, modified it and made more.

Eventually I sold the little modded up LT10 for what I had into it (can't guarantee that for everyone but mills hold their value well) and bought the biggest mill I could afford and justify (the LT40HDG26) and I love my LT40 :D

I milled on the road for a few years (and then some more) and made a lot of sawdust for others and only just decided to stop doing it for others having paid for my mill and tools with the sawmill) and am not trying to only mill for myself and my projects.

You'll get lots of good advice here as I did back in 2010 and still today.
Cheers
The Old Jarhead

[Buickal]

@alecs

Having sold my 10 second 87 Turbo Regal last year, I am left with a 67 GS 400 and 67 Skylark Convertible. Pic is of the GS.  Vertible pic was too large to post.  

Thank you for the input which gives me good info to consider.  This desire isn't really being made from a financial viewpoint but my desire to be as independent and self sufficient as possible. I also like to control my own destiny and timing.  

Fortunately the wonderful responses to my post have shown me I need to do a lot of planning before just buying a sawmill.  There's a lot of things to think through and address first.  That's not bad just glad I learned it before rather than after getting a mill.  Prepare first acquire second. 

[SawyerTed]

I don't have experience doing it but it looks like sliding and assembled manual mill onto a utility trailer wouldn't be very hard.  That would make it portable to a point.  Putting it on a deck over trailer temporarily might work if there's log handling equipment to lift logs that high. 

With 600 acres, I could see setting up and milling in an area for an extended period that might make moving the mill a reasonable endeavor.  

We have places on our 300 acres I can't get logs out with the equipment I have but I can get the mill in and lumber out (in batches).