My New lt50 things not looking good

[widetrackman]

I guess I look at things differently from some. I just bought a new $75,000 pick up and if I took it home and had to set the timing and adjust the toe end which I have the shop and tools to do, I would not be happy. I maintain that there's nothing in the manual I got with the Mill nor have been told there was a revision by my Dealer or a WM tech. In fact both the dealer and the WM tech knew nothing about the adjustment I made and both suggested I soap the belt. As to my dealer they are nice people but very small and large cattle farm combined. I will state what the YouTube  suggested and what I did; the drive belt was not effected and had nothing to do with it and after the brake adj. the tension was 19 lbs @ 7/16 inch. What I did was loosen the Brake only so as to get only 3/8-1/4 inch gap at bottom of brake link arm. This lets more slack in drive belt when the autoclutch rotates the engine back to idle. There also seamed no or very little change in blade braking. There may be other ways to stop smoking and squealing of the drive belt but my way could not be simpler. 

[widetrackman]

If you are looking for help and resources, this is a great place. You've gotten some excellent advice. Did you call and talk to Woodmizer about your situation today or yesterday?

Yes I did talk with WM tech, I did not mention about the brake adjustment. Asked him what to do about smoking belt at idle , he suggested checking the drive belt tension which I told him I had done and in spec. He then suggested soaping the drive belt which was the same advise the Dealer tech said works sometime.

[Magicman]

Or just to not do any extended idles?

There is nothing wrong with idling, just don't let it idle while you eat lunch. 

I kill my engine when I see more than a about 5 minutes or so between operations. 

[Stephen1]

So after 12 hrs of run time, the brake and drive belt adjustments are done, no more trouble with the belt. Expect to do that at 50 hrs and there after, and expect to do a lot more adjustments and repairs, as you break in the mill and learn how to run it. The new breed of tech support still has lots to learn  from guys and girls like us. Next one with your problem will now get told to adjust the brake as long as you call them back to tell how you fixed the problem. 
Thank fully that these mills are built so we can fix them!!! 
And that 75k pick up truck like the one  I bought 2 years ago just cost me $1000 for a new LED Tail light instead of $5 for a 357 bulb. 5 recalls so far on my truck and I expect more. You might be wishing you could adjust the timing instead of having to take it back the dealer all the time because they make them so we can't fix them them or maintain them anymore. 

[Nealm66]

The main reason I chose woodmizer is the dealer support. From what I've gathered, all sawmills, regardless of brand, need constant attention. I feel a lot better knowing I can drop it off at the dealer if it's something I can't figure out. It would be nice if these things were less problematic and I'm sure they have all tried to make them as trouble free as possible but there's always something 

[widetrackman]

So after 12 hrs of run time, the brake and drive belt adjustments are done, no more trouble with the belt. Expect to do that at 50 hrs and there after, and expect to do a lot more adjustments and repairs, as you break in the mill and learn how to run it. The new breed of tech support still has lots to learn  from guys and girls like us. Next one with your problem will now get told to adjust the brake as long as you call them back to tell how you fixed the problem.
Thank fully that these mills are built so we can fix them!!!
And that 75k pick up truck like the one  I bought 2 years ago just cost me $1000 for a new LED Tail light instead of $5 for a 357 bulb. 5 recalls so far on my truck and I expect more. You might be wishing you could adjust the timing instead of having to take it back the dealer all the time because they make them so we can't fix them them or maintain them anymore.

I would expect to make repairs after warranty but not a $1,000 2 days after receiving a new $75,000 truck. I will say WM has the best customer support out there. I am a little different than most folks. I have a late model Tahoe  that has over 100,000 mi that has never seen the inside of a Chevy dealer as I have scanner/analyzers, tools and a nice shop. 

[barbender]

 I've has very few brand new machines of my own. Never had a new vehicle. I've been around a lot of brand new Ponsse cut to length machines. There's always something few things that need tightened up on a brand new machine. And some issues, the official solution was rejected for something we figured out worked better in the woods. A few times one of the Ponsse techs would call me and ask, "how did you solve that issue you were having?" and you get to be part of the solution for other folks, just like you are getting from other operators here.

 As I've said before, I'd be frustrated with things not working correctly on a brand new machine, too. I'd press the dealer or factory to make it right, and then get on with it myself.

 One thing to consider with the new pickup  analogy- any model of new pickup is produced in the tens of thousands, or more. Most of the equipment I run is produced in the hundreds and maybe thousands. The more of something is out there, the more feedback the techs and engineers get to be able fix issues as they arise.

[Magicman]

It seems that the assumption might be that constant repairs and adjustments are necessary to keep a sawmill sawing.  This simply is not a fact regardless of the manufacturer.  I saw many thousands of bf of lumber while handling hundreds of logs and never tweak anything.  I know that if the engine pulls down on a wide cut and the drive belt does not squeal, there is nothing to tighten.  I may pull out the BGAT every few months to verify what I already know about the blade guides and put the square against the Side Supports.

The sawmill is like what John Cameron Swayze said about a Timex watch; "it takes a licking and keeps on ticking".  It is simply not a high maintenance machine that needs constant massaging.

[Ben Cut-wright]

I maintain that there's nothing in the manual I got with the Mill nor have been told there was a revision by my Dealer or a WM tech.

In fact both the dealer and the WM tech knew nothing about the adjustment I made and both suggested I soap the belt.

 I will state what the YouTube  suggested and what I did; the drive belt was not effected and had nothing to do with it and after the brake adj. the tension was 19 lbs @ 7/16 inch. What I did was loosen the Brake only so as to get only 3/8-1/4 inch gap at bottom of brake link arm. This lets more slack in drive belt when the autoclutch rotates the engine back to idle. There also seamed no or very little change in blade braking.

There may be other ways to stop smoking and squealing of the drive belt but my way could not be simpler.

Are you saying your manual does NOT contain instructions for adjusting the blade brake strap?    Or were you expecting to see a notation related to a "smoking drive belt"?

Even the WoodMizer parts people I've talked to were adept in most maintenance and minor adjustment procedures.

Marty provided the factory reasons for adjusting the blade brake to the point it was when you received it. The adjustment you made most assuredly changed the brake strap tension.  The new belt material is longer lasting but does require a careful break-in period.  The upgrade from twin belts to the bonded belt, and then to the new material means longer belt life and less frequent adjustments, and mostly eliminated belts jumping off pulleys. 

No matter how the belt-pulley friction was relieved the supplement instructed to limit running the engine for prolonged periods with the belt disengaged.  The manual, and experienced members here, recommend becoming aware of how the related adjustments affect one another.

AFA vehicle warranty comparisons are concerned:  There was an "air bag" recall on my brand new GM truck that took five years to resolve.  Other than the regular maintenance I do myself the truck has never been in for other repairs of any sort.  My LT40HD has become intimately more, what would you say, *familiar.

[widetrackman]

Ben, I don't think Marty covered what I am talking about. The manual does not say what is the result is if the 1/16 min gap at the collar on the brake adj is excessive, mine from factory was 1 1/2 and would within 45 or so seconds start smoking the belt. Maybe someone would test a lt40-50 with a new belt with the gap set a 1 1/2" and see what happen's. BTW when the dealer tested the mill he never let it idle for more than a few seconds so no noise or smoking. A owner of a new Mill should not have to know about or make this adj on day one. Again IMO

[YellowHammer]

45 seconds to smoke the belt would have been pretty obvious when you conducted your test drive of the new mill in front of the company rep, as well as the debarker trip and the bed rail issue.  I'm curious as to why these weren't discovered when you tested the mill at the dealer and you sawed a few logs there at your own speed?

Or when they brought it, and you sawed some logs in front of them, to do a confirmation alignment and operational check?


   

[Ben Cut-wright]

(1) Ben, I don't think Marty covered what I am talking about. The manual does not say what is the result is if the 1/16 min gap at the collar on the brake adj is excessive,

(2)mine from factory was 1 1/2 and would within 45 or so seconds start smoking the belt. Maybe someone would test a lt40-50 with a new belt with the gap set a 1 1/2" and see what happen's.

(3)BTW when the dealer tested the mill he never let it idle for more than a few seconds so no noise or smoking. A owner of a new Mill should not have to know about or make this adj on day one. Again IMO

(1)  There are many scenarios that could occur and the manual or expert assistance cannot cover all of them.  The trick is making adjustments to specs in order to prevent bad scenarios and maintain correct operation.

(2) You have a legitimate complaint if you weren't instructed or your WoodMizer supplied literature did not include the auto clutch supplement, IMO. 

(3) Apparently the dealer wasn't aware of the drive belt break-in procedure. You are now aware of it and I'm sure WoodMizer will make you whole in the matter.  Hopefully you can see why it is necessary for the "owner of a new Mill" to be aware of the benefit of proper drive belt break-in? 

No doubt there will be other circumstances where you will need to overcome some operational/maintenance peculiarity after using a new or used WoodMizer sawmill.  Correcting these usually isn't as involved as they first appear. Some are much more difficult than what you presented. A new owner is in the comfort zone with warranty and WoodMizer good will and expert assistance.

[widetrackman]

45 seconds to smoke the belt would have been pretty obvious when you conducted your test drive of the new mill in front of the company rep, as well as the debarker trip and the bed rail issue.  I'm curious as to why these weren't discovered when you tested the mill at the dealer and you sawed a few logs there at your own speed?

Or when they brought it, and you sawed some logs in front of them, to do a confirmation alignment and operational check?


 

No test at Dealer basically. He cranked saw and immediately hit the auto clutch, and moved the head into a log with the deabarker running and immediately the mill threw a circuit breaker. He did this twice and each time tripped a breaker. There was no squealing or smoke and why I don't know. At this point he said he could not fix it that day that so I went home. All this does not really matter,  as when I ran the Mill for the first time the belt smoked. Only after several days of searching in the manual I could not figure out why the belt was smoking. Eventually I found a YouTube that indicated what my problem was; the mill was grossly out of adjustment from the factory. All the how and why are ok but the bottom line is if you get a new lt40-50 check to see if mill is out of adj. The easy way to understand if your mill is out of adj and smoking a belt is to check out the YouTube I referenced. 

[TimW]

And that 75k pick up truck like the one  I bought 2 years ago just cost me $1000 for a new LED Tail light instead of $5 for a 357 bulb. 5 recalls so far on my truck and I expect more. You might be wishing you could adjust the timing instead of having to take it back the dealer all the time because they make them so we can't fix them them or maintain them anymore.

That is exactly why I drive a 2003 pickup.

[Southside]

Did the belt jump half out of the drive pulley? 

[Magicman]

I hate to see Wood-Mizer taking the rap on this situation when it actually falls squarely on the selling dealer's shoulders.  It seems obvious to me that they rushed through the dealer training and made a few cursory cuts instead of taking the time to do the proper training.  Had that been done, the engine would have surely idled for a while and the improperly adjusted components would have made themselves known.

I am reading that the dealer/technician actually ran the sawmill and widetrackman never received any hands on training. 

This is the Mississippi Wood-Mizer dealer and I have never used this dealership for any of my services.  I have only talked with them on the phone one time.

[widetrackman]

12 hours on a "new" mill?  To me that's a lot of running time for a new mill.  Was it sold as a demo unit?  12 hours is a lot of cutting.  I'm assuming the hour meter is only running when the engine is running? 

Sounds like a miserable experience when it should be a pleasant one.

Miserable is  correct. When I went to get the mill it had been there for a month because of the debarker screw up. When I got there the seat and HP guides were not installed, so while they were installing them I looked over the Mill. It looked brand new no saw dust or any indication it had been run. However I never thought to check the hr meter only when it was delivered and showed 11+ hours. I just figured that the 5 weeks they were trying to get the debarker installed. BTW on the 5 week when they said come and get it. Apon arrivaI asked where was the seat and hp guides? Da , we think there in the shop, turned out they didn't have the guides. So after a hour and half they got the seat on. We then set a log on the Mill and tried to use the Mill and the debarker kept throwing the circuit breaker. I the asked if they tested the debarker before calling me for pick up; the answer was no. They said they would deliver when fixed so I drove 125 miles each way for no Mill. A week later they delivered the Mill with the 11.5 hrs. I have no idea how they got these hrs but I am sure the Mill was new when I was there. I will see if the meter runs when key on only. Sorry to be so long wind'd but thought you might be interested.

[SawyerTed]

The more I read of this fiasco the more the shortcomings appear to rest with the dealer delivery  procedures.   Maybe Wood-Mizer manufacturing has some responsibility but the dealer is the final check prior to delivery.  

A thorough delivery demo appears to have been bypassed.  A portion of responsibility rests on the customer NOT to accept a machine until it is satisfactorily demonstrated.   

My pickup/delivery  experience with a different dealer is much different.  Both mills I purchased were set up and run before I arrived.  I received about an hour's worth of training and orientation on the mills.

In 2018 we found a major hydraulic leak on the LT35 during the demo and training. The dealer fixed it and delivered the mill two days later. 

With the LT50 delivery, the delivery tech asked if I wanted the full training and orientation since I had already owned a mill.  I told him to do it just like I was a new owner.  We spent time sawing two logs and mostly focused on Accuset 2 operations.

There have been a couple of other threads similar to this one where either a dealer or customer short cut the delivery and training or delivery didn't include a thorough demo.  

Doesn't warranty depend upon the owner participating in the demo and training session on mills above a certain model?  

[Hilltop366]

This sucks for everyone the manufacture for letting a substandard mill out the door and now has a unhappy costumer and dealer, the dealer being stuck in the middle, they didn't make it but they get stuck trying to fix it and have a unhappy customer,  but especially the buyer who put down a substantial amount of money and expected a fully functioning mill and is now wasting his time trying to make it right but is also at a disadvantage because he has the least amount of experience of the three.

At the very least I would try to have the "unsatisfied costumer" return date deadline countdown changed to start after the mill is made to run properly so you actually have time to use a properly functioning mill to decide.

[tule peak timber]

I took delivery of my second Woodmizer mill back in 2019. It was an LT70 Wide, along with supporting gear. The dealership in N. CA used it, without my permission, over the weekend, prior to delivery to TPT, to run a bunch of demonstrations and managed to bend the loading arm, one of the hydraulic rams, snapped off some bolts on the head and did various other damages. I paid for one of the technicians to deliver it and he spent 2 days on my dime trying to get it to run. He was unsuccessful because he didn't know the mill and I paid a great deal for that wasted time. So, fast forward a month, Woodmizer is great! They threw a bunch of parts at me and said "here you fix it". We had steady trouble with a number of wiring, tension bag problems and a funny thing that the mill wouldn't open up to 20'. Seems it was "put together wrong at the factory". Fast forward more months; a new joystick control head, wiring harness, nuts and bolts, etc. etc. Never did really get to use the mill and sold it for $20k less than I paid for it. Definitely lacking in customer service and quality.

[John S]

TPT, not good!  It is definitely up to the manufacturer and dealer to make things right on a brand new mill. 

[doc henderson]

I do not own a WM mill.  I have met Marty and I think he is a great guy, and I appreciate that WM is a sponsor.  It is by far and away the most prev. brand of mill represented on this forum.  I stick up for Timberking, also a sponsor, as I have had a great experience with them.  the real test is after the warranty is over and they (specifically Matt) have been great.  the very mechanical, knowledgeable staff have been quite patient helping with a diagnosis and me now being quite proficient with trouble shooting.  I do not owe them anything, and they do not owe me.  I think you have a right to be unhappy, and I would take that up with them.  As well there are lots of WM owners here that help bring a new owner up on the learning curve.  I think you should take advantage of that.  I think you have confirmation that some of the issues may be on the manufacturer.  i would put all your energy on that front towards Wood-mizer.  Many companies have suffered in a post Covid environment, and I am sure they are no different.  I am not here to tell you what to do, but I would go up the chain and demand things are made right.  Given the long history with the company, I would also give a little grace and work to some resolution.  Best regards, and respect, Doc.

[tule peak timber]

Yup, well after one of their visits here they went into direct competition with me selling wood , slabs , epoxy technology, etc, etc. My WM dealer is a direct competitor of my business.
  Grace is bowing out, moving on, and doing better than the competition.

[widetrackman]

And that 75k pick up truck like the one  I bought 2 years ago just cost me $1000 for a new LED Tail light instead of $5 for a 357 bulb. 5 recalls so far on my truck and I expect more. You might be wishing you could adjust the timing instead of having to take it back the dealer all the time because they make them so we can't fix them them or maintain them anymore.

That is exactly why I drive a 2003 pickup.

Yes, this is why I drive them till ain't nothing left, last month purchased my first vehicle  in 16 years with all the extended warranty they had; bumper to bumper 6 years/75,000 mi, power train 6 yr./ 100,000 mi. and why, because of all the complex systems. My mileage is 10-12 thousand miles. Reduces for quite awhile me having to make repairs.

[widetrackman]

TPT, I feel your pain !!