Truly clear finish?

Old Greenhorn · October 17, 2024, 02:16:56 PM

I don't like trying new finishes because they are expensive and mostly don't improve things much over the poly I use.

But I have to find a truly clear finish to try out on ERC so that I retain that pretty cotton candy color. The poly I use darkens and yellows everything quite a bit.

Is like something that is locally available at HD or Lowe's, not mail order. I am thinking about watco clear lacquer. Anybody have any experience with it and could comment on how much it alters the wood colors? Interested in any suggestions please. Color matters here.

Andries · October 17, 2024, 02:46:39 PM

Try American Finishes "Flat out Flat".
Yup that a boujee name for a can of pretty durable finish that will hardly make any difference in tint or tone.
Sold in HDeeps up here.

Old Greenhorn · October 17, 2024, 05:42:32 PM

Well a recommendation from you is good enough for me to try it, but HD doesn't list it here in stateside stores. I can find it mail order, but I'll have to do some more looking. Rockler is pretty pricey.

doc henderson · October 17, 2024, 06:11:18 PM

general finishes Arm-R-All wipe on poly.

Dan_Shade · October 17, 2024, 08:21:01 PM

Check out water white finishes. I think most of the paint companies make non-yellowing finishes. You may need a uv blocker too.

Larry · October 17, 2024, 09:06:41 PM

Sherwin Williams CAB Lacquer

This will meet your requirements. Water clear with good protection to UV. Available at local Sherwin Williams stores (call ahead). Comes in four different sheen's. Not that expensive, it is available in gallon size. Easy to apply with the cheap HF purple spray gun. A little experience, knowledge would help to avoid orange peel with gloss. Long shelf life.

I've been using it for better than 20 years on all kinds of things. With kitchen cabinets, house trim, and some furniture I use the recommended sealer for added protection. For small boxes I skip sealer and cut it 50% with lacquer thinner. Dull rubbed sheen is my choice for boxes. Gloss is my choice for Christmas ornaments.

A poor second place would be shellac but it's mail order and you would need to flakes to get the same result.

Arm-R-Seal is great but it won't meet your requirements.

A ERC secret to keep the pink. Use aniline dies or a cherry stain than top coat with your finish. It takes some experimenting to get it right and even than a very experienced eye can detect it. It works well. I hardly ever make anything with ERC anymore but 25 years I worked with a friend and we made lots of boxes that he sold at craft fairs.

I should add I keep many finishes on hand and pick the most suitable one for the project I'm working on. The last 5 years its been table and chairs for the biggest part. I always reach for some kind of oil finish for those things.

Old Greenhorn · October 17, 2024, 09:36:28 PM

Well it looks like all those suggestions will work, but none are available locally with the possible exception of the Sherwin Williams product. I really didn't want to mess with spray applications, but I might give it a try. I will call the local dealer tomorrow.
There are a few shops that are NOT box stores that MAY carry some of those other products, but it will take half a day driving around trying to find out if they have anything that will work for what I want.
The issue is I have this thing almost done and I don't want to wait a week. None of this stuff is cheap for a test, otherwise I would try a few to find the best one for me.
The days are getting busy and I don't know if I can get to town or anywhere else tomorrow.

Brad_bb · October 18, 2024, 01:05:59 AM

The only thing I've found that retains the color is water based urethane. I like General finishes High performance. I've been buying it in 5 gallon cans cause I was using so much. I use the flat on my barnwood window, door, and baseboard trim. It doesn't look like there's a finish with the flat, but you have the protection. If you use it on walnut, it keeps the milk chocolate color, unlike when you use an oil it darkens the walnut and highlights variations in color. It all depends on the look you're going for.

jb616 · October 18, 2024, 06:37:05 AM

@Bradd_bb, i agree with the General Finishes product. Woodcraft recommended it for my Oak counter tops and i have no complaints. Durability seems very good as well.

Old Greenhorn · October 18, 2024, 07:46:56 AM

Well, I am impatient and don't want to wait for the mail, so today I will go on a snipe hunt and see if I can find some of this stuff at the local (old) hardware stores. There is also a Sherwin Williams dealer in town.
But first I get to enjoy the ~~ordeal~~ adventure of bringing a cat for her checkup after 2 weeks of meds to see if they are working.

Tom K · October 18, 2024, 08:25:57 AM

Quote from: Larry on October 17, 2024, 09:06:41 PMSherwin Williams CAB Lacquer

This will meet your requirements. Water clear with good protection to UV. Available at local Sherwin Williams stores (call ahead). Comes in four different sheen's. Not that expensive, it is available in gallon size. Easy to apply with the cheap HF purple spray gun. A little experience, knowledge would help to avoid orange peel with gloss. Long shelf life.

I've been using it for better than 20 years on all kinds of things. With kitchen cabinets, house trim, and some furniture I use the recommended sealer for added protection. For small boxes I skip sealer and cut it 50% with lacquer thinner. Dull rubbed sheen is my choice for boxes. Gloss is my choice for Christmas ornaments.

I'm going to agree with Larry. I've been using SW lacquers for quite a few years, their Pre-Cat, Hi Build, and CAB Acrylic. While not the most durable finish it does hold up decent. I spray with a cheap gun with a 2 qt. pressure pot.

So the bad news though is you may not be able to buy it, especially in NY. The last time I was in my local store picking some up they said they would not be able to sell it to anyone without some type of safety cert. after a certain date. Maybe that was just an Ohio rule, but I'm sure that date has passed. It is a high VOC finish that takes a week or so to offgas. They supposedly have a similar water based finish, but I have not had a chance to try it yet.

doc henderson · October 18, 2024, 09:21:22 AM

I have had good luck with spar urethane, but it will peel in a few years if outside year-round. and the white wood will get mold in the cracks. you could use penetrating epoxy to plasticize the surface then finish, but I know you are not looking to increase time and expense on these projects. I have a little library now 5 years outside and looks great from the street as I drive by. all ERC and the siding and shingles still look good and are holding up well.

scsmith42 · October 18, 2024, 04:52:01 PM

Lacquer is generally regarded as being one of the clearest finishes available. For cedar, you'll want UV inhibitors so I'd follow Larry's advice.

Old Greenhorn · October 18, 2024, 06:33:48 PM

Well, I decided today was the day I could make something happen on this front. After the ordeal taking the cat to the vet for blood tests, I started my driving tour to find something local. That's a whole 'nother story for another thread. I found 'something close.
Just to show what I am trying to accomplish, here is a finished stool with oil poly next to a raw stool with nothing.

I assume you can tell which is which.

So I found this stuff:

I followed the instructions and used a foam brush. It is milky but when it dried any white stuff disappeared. I could only do two coats today. Not a big fan of this thing water based stuff, but so far, it doesn't look too bad and the color is certainly better. Here it is after the second coat. I still have to sand again and do one more coat.

You can still see a little white on the tenons, but the stuff isn't dry yet. Hoping the 3rd (recommended) coat does the trick tomorrow. I'll do a final photo comparing the two stools side by side when I call it 'done'. I only bought a pint of the stuff ($25.) just to try it out. I might try to order some in gloss to see how that looks, but if I am ordering, I will try the flat out flat stuff/ The guy in the store said it's really good stuff, but they don't carry it.

Thank you to all who provided input. I will keep referring to this thread as I try new stuff. I am just not in a place right now where I can order several pints of samples to try them and compare. So, one step at a time, but I'd like to try several other suggestions here going forward.

I

Old Greenhorn · October 20, 2024, 06:35:51 PM

OK, as close to the end of the story, or at least this chapter came today. Here is a photo with the previous two stools. The one on the right is oil poly as before, and the one on the left is with the finish I noted in the last post with 3 coats, as recommended, of the satin water based finish.

I am not sure which one looks better or which one will sell easier, so opinions on that are most welcome.
What I would like to do is find the same, or similar finish in a gloss or semi gloss and try that. I am not really sold on the Satin.
So which one? Left... or right?

21incher · October 20, 2024, 07:10:36 PM

Both look great. It's a good photo to show your clients and let them choose. I like the oil richness better but the water-based looks more natural.

East ky logging · October 20, 2024, 07:16:26 PM

They both look great but I like the one on the right the contrast of the colors looks better to me.

Old Greenhorn · October 20, 2024, 07:19:43 PM

Yeah. I really wanted people to see the pretty colors that I saw when the wood was being worked. The oil poly changes that quite a bit. Those pretty pinks, I think, are a shame to lose. But beauty is in the eyes of the buyer. I will do the next few with this new finish or something quite similar. At $25. a pint I have to choose carefully.
I am messing around with leg builds right now. Those legs are all glue-ups.

WV Sawmiller · October 20, 2024, 10:32:35 PM

Right

teakwood · October 21, 2024, 09:07:46 AM

you asked for it! the left one looks unfinished to me

Old Greenhorn · October 21, 2024, 09:20:23 AM

Yeah Ramon, that's the point. It's very natural.

But in person it is finished and has a satin appearance. Compare those 2 photos closely ad you should see it.

It's interesting you guys prefer the right (oil) one. I'll have to make a few and see what the buying public thinks.

Old Greenhorn · October 21, 2024, 06:08:21 PM

I put that same photo up on my FB business page and asked followers to pick which one they liked. Out of 16 responses, 14 preferred the oil finish and two leaned toward the clear.
I never would have guessed that response. I still prefer the one with the clear finish, but I'm not buying them so....

doc henderson · October 22, 2024, 05:33:40 AM

Well, they have the advantage and or disadvantage of not really knowing what the wood looks like raw. It is pretty.

Old Greenhorn · October 22, 2024, 08:14:32 AM

Everyone has different tastes I guess. Given the overwhelming slant of opinions. I may just make one more of the clear ones and let the market decide. I have at least 5 oil poly stools in inventory already, just trying to do something a little different.

Brad_bb · October 29, 2024, 12:38:29 AM

The finish is most expensive in small cans. Gallon is cheaper and 5 gal is cheaper yet. I've never tried the 55 gallon drum....

I also have a few gallons of Zar Aqua that I used for a wood floor finish. It's probably dries a little harder. I've used some when I ran out of General finish. Besides true color, water based urethane dries quickly, and is easy clean up.

The decision of what finish to use should be based on the individual project. On some things is water based urethane, like a walnut end table I use next to my bed. It needed to resist liquid stains, an be easily refinish-able, which it is. I also use Rubio Monocoat on walnut furniture stuff and table tops. I use the Zar Aqua water based urethan on a wood floor and like it.