Plumbing Question

Magicman · January 06, 2025, 08:59:41 AM

Thanks, I was just noticing that fancy baseboard and wondering. ??

Onthesauk · January 06, 2025, 10:52:37 AM

We've had these on our last two houses, has a duel pipe system through the house. First had a timer, would shut down at 11, back on at 6 in the morning. The current system has a thermostat, just turns on as the water in the system cools.

Expensive system, pretty much has to be installed on new construction. New system that is commonly done is a pump at the hot water heater and a valve at the farthest fitting from the heater. Circulates hot through the house and into a cold fitting at the end. These are done with timers.

beenthere · January 06, 2025, 12:18:10 PM

Pump should show which way the water is being pumped. Running continuously indicates a pump timer problem, I'm thinking.

Mooseherder · January 06, 2025, 01:29:31 PM

Thank you all for the comments. I've set the timer and will see how that works.
Here's a few pictures of what is under one of the sinks in the furthest bathroom.
This is the only fixture this way. All the other fixtures look standard to me.

I counted to 17 for the water to get hot at the furthest sink. Like a normal wait for a system that doesn't have this do hickey.
The closest bathroom was hot on the count of 4.

My daughter says the master bath water is not hot enough. Will adjusting this mixing valve knob fix the whole bathroom or just this one sink fixture?
I took the top screw off and tried turning it but it didn't want to budge from my hand strength, so I didn't want to cause a fiasco.
The other bathroom water is hot plenty.

[https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=357329] [=https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=357329]

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barbender · January 06, 2025, 01:37:29 PM

Yes that is a mixing valve, but I'm not clear on the plumbing. Are those lines the hot and cold for that sink fixture? In that case, it will only control the temp of that fixture.

There is likely a mixing valve for the shower/tub, too.

Mooseherder · January 06, 2025, 02:47:25 PM

Yes, this is his sink on the one wall, hers is on the opposite wall. The tub is in-between.
I'll have to check if the access panel for the tub is easy to get at later. It didn't look like it when I was in there earlier.
Seems like a wasted concept to me so far.

doc henderson · January 06, 2025, 03:36:26 PM

the only application for that I think would be to decrease the hot water temp, like in a child's bathroom. we have a larger one for the floor heat to decrease the boiler water temp. so the floor is warm, but not hot. Not sure where the bottom pipe goes.

Mooseherder · January 06, 2025, 04:16:45 PM

The tub panel isn't accessible unless trim is taken off and she mentioned it isn't that cold.
I'm glad about that.

I'd like to see the loop diagram for the system. Without a loop it just doesn't add up for me.
I'm still not understanding the real benefit because what I'm seeing is it dead ends.

Hilltop366 · January 06, 2025, 05:06:48 PM

I would say that the circulator pump is to provide hot faster to a distant fixture, the pump side should be the return from a hot line somewhere down the line (preferably at the end).

It would be easy to add the correct Surface Mount Hydronic Temperature Control to the return pipe there and run the electrical to the sensor first then to the pump so the pump would cycle on and off instead of all the time when the timer is on. A hydronic/mechanical switch would require no other electrical input to run and should last for decades.

The mixing valve is plumbed to provide tempered water somewhere else not to the sink there. It could be to a tub/shower or it to a toilet. Some houses are done this way (warm/hot to the toilet) to provide either a warm toilet in cold climates "LUXURY" or to reduce condensation in warm/humid climate.

To adjust the mixing valve you need to loosen the screw enough to lift the knob a bit to clear the bottom splined part and turn only the top brass splined part.

doc henderson · January 06, 2025, 05:07:06 PM

maybe the bottom pipe is the infeed for the tub and shower. they also make aerators that shutdown if too hot. I would get instruction on that model and set it to the hottest and see if the tub gets hotter. on the hot side of course.

I agree with hilltop. we must have been posting at the same time.

doc henderson · January 06, 2025, 05:10:55 PM

did you say the house if 4 years old? if so, I wonder if the papers included the original contractors, and they could help explain how this all works.

Hilltop366 · January 06, 2025, 05:21:10 PM

I will add that mixing valves sometimes stick from mineral buildup, if the water is hard there it is recommended to periodically turn the adjuster oneway and then return it back to its setting. Easier to do if you put a mark on the adjuster knob so you can return it to its set position.

I have one in a building that the issue is the check valve wears out after a few years, the apartment closest to the valve would notice it first because it would mix cold back in the tempered, the apartment 120' away never knew anything was wrong as they had a 120' of 1" line full of hot water to cool off first. Took me a bit to figure that one out.

Mooseherder · January 06, 2025, 05:34:44 PM

She must have the stack of build sheets, I'll check with her. That should answer the tub question at a minimum. It would make sense to put the valve under the sink instead of a fixed panel but the copper pipe leads to the sink faucet. It must control the tub next to it also. We are building next door and I saw our stack of build sheets today but didn't review them yet. Hopefully ours will be different. Our old house never had this and was never an issue. We have a different builder, so probably will be. If we don't get it sorted out by then the plumber can have a look see.

scsmith42 · January 06, 2025, 07:22:20 PM

Quote from: Mooseherder on January 06, 2025, 01:29:31 PMThank you all for the comments. I've set the timer and will see how that works.
Here's a few pictures of what is under one of the sinks in the furthest bathroom.
This is the only fixture this way. All the other fixtures look standard to me.

I counted to 17 for the water to get hot at the furthest sink. Like a normal wait for a system that doesn't have this do hickey.
The closest bathroom was hot on the count of 4.

My daughter says the master bath water is not hot enough. Will adjusting this mixing valve knob fix the whole bathroom or just this one sink fixture?
I took the top screw off and tried turning it but it didn't want to budge from my hand strength, so I didn't want to cause a fiasco.
The other bathroom water is hot plenty.

[https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=357329] [=https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=357329][/url]

Do you know what that valve feeds? I've seen those used for a bidet but never a shower.

Mooseherder · January 06, 2025, 10:15:29 PM

This is under one of the master bathroom sinks but no bidet.

doc henderson · January 07, 2025, 09:21:47 AM

Hey @scsmith42 How do you like those bidets?

scsmith42 · January 07, 2025, 08:34:25 PM

Quote from: doc henderson on January 07, 2025, 09:21:47 AMHey @scsmith42 How do you like those bidets?

Love 'em, Doc!

Mooseherder · January 09, 2025, 05:19:47 PM

So we went a couple days with the timer kicking off at 8pm to 5am no problems. Then I added 10am to 2pm timer off to see if we could get more time off but that only lasted a day because there wasn't hot water when someone needed it. There went that idea. Then I adjusted more time on from 10pm to 4am off instead of the 8pm to 5am. off because I can think of scenarios where it might be needed. If it isn't on there is no hot water. It's a BS system imo.
Can these systems be bypassed?