Black Oak?

[cutterboy]

I have always thought that all my red oaks were Nothern Red Oaks but now I'm not sure. In one area of my farm there are several oaks whose bark is a little different than the majority of the other red oaks. I never really noticed this till a few days ago when I cut one of them down.
Is this a Black Oak?



The next pictures are what I am sure are a couple of my Northern Red Oaks for comparison.





That last picture is a younger tree.
I know identification would be easier if the leaves were out but I just noticed this now.


  Thanks.....Cutter

[Old Greenhorn]

It's really hard to tell (for me). Oak tree bark changes so much as the tree ages I just can't trust what I see, I have been fooled too many times. We have Red, White, Chestnut , and Scarlet Oak around here. Red and Scarlet are really close, but the leaves tell the difference. Market value for those two are wildly different. For my own lumber purposes they are pretty close.
 Sorry man, can't help you. If WDH were around he could for sure. I'd have to wait until the leaves pop in a few weeks.

[Magicman]

Black Oak bark should be fairly bright orange immediately underneath the outer bark.  If you hack into the bark it will be very evident.  (I am still looking for pictures.)

I realize that this is the wrong time of the year for leaves, but Black Oak leaves will have this characteristic:

Dead leaves may still show evidence of the above.

[beenthere]

MM
What "characteristic" are you referring to in the pic? 

[Ron Scott]

Yes, to black oak or a cross between red and black if both a prevalent on the site.

[cutterboy]

Red and black oak can cross? Well, that makes positive identification more difficult! 
Are there any more trees or group of trees that can cross?

[scsmith42]

This is black oak.

[Resonator]

WOW!

[Rhodemont]

The first pic you posted is black oak.  It has a much more puzzle piece bark than the norther red or scarlet.  Red has a much more vertically lined bark which I suggest the young tree you pictured is.  The leaves of black, white , red, scarlet are very easy to identify and the biggest give away.  The black have a very rounded points and furrows as opposed to the sharp distinct red and even more so scarlet.

[Magicman]

What "characteristic" are you referring to in the pic? 

The brown fuzzy "gathering" where the veins branch on the underside of the leaf as seen in the picture.  WDH pointed this out to me as well as the bright orange underneath the outer bark as easy identifiable characteristics of Black Oak.  

Sadly I lost the album with my pictures showing both.  They are in the original Whatcha Sawin' ?? topic but I have no way to search and find the reply with the pictures.

[newoodguy78]

Cutter that certainly looks like black oak to me. One thing I've noticed is black oak tends to have a very different and distinct smell to it quite pungent,much different than red. Can honestly say when I've milled it it's not what I would consider a pleasant smell.

 Helped saw a bunch of oak logs one time that had been around long enough all the bark was gone , there was no question when a black was being sawed.

[cutterboy]

Thank you all for your replies. I feel more confident now that those trees are black oak but I'll know better in a couple of months when the leaves come out.
It's interesting, there are five (now four since I cut one down) of these "black oak" trees all in one spot, all within 50 feet of each other and all the same size. They are growing in an area that is an old grown up pasture and they seem to be very healthy.

[Magicman]

Check for the bright orange color next to the cambium.

I thought of a way to maybe access my Black Oak pictures but that will have to wait until this evening.  Gotta head to the sawmill now.

[cutterboy]

Check for the bright orange color next to the cambium.

Yes! It's there!
I cut the tree up into firewood rounds yesterday and the underbark was a bright yellow-orange. And as newwoodguy said, it doesn't smell very good.

[Magicman]

Good!!  That Orange underbark plus the brown web where the veins break off under the leaf holds true for Black Oak. 

WDH's wisdom continues on.