Making it thrugh another year, '24-'25

[Old Greenhorn]

Do you plan on inoculating and keeping a log or two for your own use every year?

I don't mind at all. But, I can't tell you that... yet.
I sell my logs at $6./ea and I am the highest price I know of. I have never done my own logs. The are startup costs for some simple tools, and then the perishable supplies of spores, wax, labels, etc. Inoculated logs depending on size sell for anywhere from $25 to $45 depending on the seller, size, and market. The internet prices are nuts and I recently saw you can order logs from home depot. I have no idea how these sell. I am told anecdotally by another local guy that it is "a good seller" for him but there are no numbers to go along with that claim. Once I get into it, set up my materials and process, and drill some logs I will let you know how the costs work out and what price I settle on for a starting point
 This is another thing where the stuff I see for sale doesn't follow a good pattern or business model. So again, I would be exploring the market and feeling my way again. Whereas I sell lots of logs to growers, the inoculated log sales are more for the gardener, the curious, or the experimenter. Therefore sales are mostly one or perhaps two at a time. Often bought as gifts. 
 I do not plan on raising my own crop but am sure I will get stuck with some (maybe all?) of these logs and will figure out what to do with the output when the time comes. If a sales outlet develops I can always set up a growing yard down in Bill's woods, but that's a ways off and we would need an easy outlet for them before I would go there.

[WV Sawmiller]

   Thanks. I hope it works out well for you.

    I would think the growing experience would add even more to the value of your other logs as you can fall back on your experience there too. When someone asks about them you can tell them "Well, from the ones I have grown I found out that ..."

[doc henderson]

Tom, can you recommend a good book on mushroom growing and a supply house for materials.  You got my interest up.

[Old Greenhorn]

Good question Doc. Nobody ever asked me about a book before. There are a lot out there I am sure, but frankly I don't know how they could keep up with the current knowledge. New and fundamental things are being learned all the time. Take the use of Red Maple for Shiitakes, a few years back nobody would use them, but new research shows that with proper planning and handling they produce quite well. It's really changing all the time and can be hard to keep up. BUT, the internet does provide more timely information. I find that the work done on the Field and Forest website is the most up to date and well researched material. They have MANY instruction sheets and videos that I send folks to all the time. They carry a high standard.
 I also find most of my clients including commercial growers use them for their supplies. That's where I will get mine when it's time. The LINK IS HERE. Check the materials under their 'Resources' tab. Also use the search tool to find more elusive stuff such as the Red Maple research project.
 I should say I had read a bunch of books but then, working with folks I discovered a lot of the information was either old or not exactly correct. Also regarding the internet, you have to look carefully at who is providing the information and what it is based on, documented research or hearsay? More than most subjects, this one carries a lot of self proclaimed 'experts' that really are not. This is why I sought out folks who had a scientific approach and worked with this subject everyday, were active in higher level learning, and had the hands on experience. I use those folks for information when a tough question comes up. Knowing something works in one thing, but knowing WHY it works is the real key.
 Let me know if I can help in any other way.

[SwampDonkey]

If it were me, I'd be looking at mushroom books by Paul Stamets. Something like, "Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms". I remember him wearing a hat made of a mushroom on one of Joe Rogan's podcasts. 

[WV Sawmiller]

Tom,

   I think you may have your first customer for your first inoculated mushroom logs. Do you deliver/ship to Kansas?

Doc,

    You might check with your local soils and forestry agent folks. I did a couple of workshops/sawing demos for our local agricultural/forestry folks and attended one of their meetings and they mentioned mushroom growing as topics they had addressed before. I was not hugely interested at the time but it would not hurt to ask your local county/state guys. Good luck.

      We know from last years workshop in GA that you have a truck and trailer so I am sure you can haul a lot if you want to pick up a load in New York.

[Nebraska]

url=https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=358748][/url]

I saw this truck not far from the Hotel we have been staying in visiting our daughters in Manhattan. Made me think of this thread. 

[Old Greenhorn]

That's one of my little subsidiary's.   Actually those folks are not very far from me, about half way between me and the city.
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Yeah Howard, I could send him logs but the shipping is a killer. Probably best to just send a pallet full, common carrier.
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 Swamp, I am sure there are a lot of good books out there, I just haven't read any....yet. The only books I have on on Mushroom id's and foraging, which I also don't do.
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 So, forecast was for a rainout today, but only rained until 11am, another 1/2" or so. Anyway, I decided I needed to 'do something' do I fired up the shop stove and built a Loginator for myself. Mostly new wood but I had a top left from the first design, which was only 1" thick. I have since changed to either 1-1/2 or 2" thick. I skip planed the old one and scabbed on another 1" board underneath. I also used cheaper and smaller wheels because HF had them on sale and I didn't want to waste money. I can change them out later if I really feel the need. So  little bit of a cob job, but fully functional for my own use.



I suppose I could paint it and all the cob work will go away. Don't really like the smaller cheap wheels but I will se ho they work out now that I am a 'user'.  Next I have to order the bit and adaptor to put on that angle grinder, as well as the inoculation supplies: Wax, spawn, labels, etc. As long as I am going to all this work, I might do a video to put on my web page for my clients in case I don't bail out of the business. I still gets lots of questions on the process itself, even though it's quite simple.
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 The weather is going to take another dump in temps for a few more days, some nights in the 20's and they are calling for snow before daylight tomorrow. Highs only in the 30's for a few days and not breaking 50 until Friday. Kind of makes me wish I wasn't out of firewood. I have a little left for the shop, maybe a day or two, but almost none for the house. I might go fetch some but jeez I am getting tired of this dribs and drabs thing.

 Ah well, tomorrow is another day.

[aigheadish]

Thanks for the link and info above. I'm fascinated with mushrooms (and I actually like to eat them!) and it'll be nice to read some info from a reputable source. I'd love to forage but the only thing we have around here, that I trust picking, are Morels and they are short lived and short supply, though it is about time for them. 

[Old Greenhorn]

I was going to put this in a PM to Doc, but then I thought I'd just post it here for anybody else that might be playing along, either now or in the future.

 I was on the Field & Forest website last night just trying to rough out my costs to get this started. Obviously the first time through is more expensive, but after you have the tools and are setup, the actual re-supply isn't bad at all. A 5# bag of spawn will do well over 50 logs, closer to 100, I think. Labels, wax, and the other stuff usually leaves you with leftovers for the next time. The spawn is the only thing with a shelf life, but can last a few months.
 
 For the first time grower, there are a few choices. First, are you going to use sawdust spawn or plugs? Many choose plugs because they are easier and you don't need the sawdust inoculation tool the plugs are pre-sized and you just push them in. Plugs take a little longer to propagate in the log though. I am using sawdust spawn and already have the tool. I notice pricing on their tools went up since last I looked. They get a pretty penny for the drill adaptor, but I need one and don't want to have one made locally. You should note there are different drill sizes for plugs or sawdust. Plugs are 8.5mm and sawdust is 12.5mm. You can use standard or brad point drills just fine. But the purpose made drills are real rippers and when used on a angle grinder with the adaptor, they zip right along. This won't matter much until you have drilled about 1,000 holes and are starting to go cross-eyed. (Figure 32-60 holes per log, maybe more on big logs.) Plus you need a depth stop on the drill and this is built into the purpose built ones. You have to make something for conventional drills.

 The big question is which spawn? Yeah, you want Shiitake (or some other species), but which Shiitake? Do you want wide range strain, warm weather strain, cool weather strain? After you make that choice there are up to a six options in each category. This can be a bit much for a first time grower, don't sweat it too much, but do a lot of reading before you choose. (If it helps, I will be getting the WR46 strain which several of my clients have told me works very well for them and is also recommended by my local mycologist guru.) But this is why I recommend Field and Forest, they have the widest variety, do a lot of their own research, and have the people on staff that can answer questions quickly and accurately. YMMV with other suppliers.

 Other stuff you need includes the labels which are aluminum and you can engrave with a ball point pen. Most folks do Date, Log species, and Spawn Strain. I think it's too much to put on the tag and still read 2 years later. I have tried to read a LOT of tags and half of them I have little clue on. I plan to just give each log a number and track the data on a spreadsheet where I can also include the cut dates, inoculation dates, first fruit date, etc. Those labels need to last and be readable for a long time (5 years?) so anything like plastic marked with a sharpie just won't work.
 You will need sealing wax. Pretty much anything will work that is food safe but keep in mind that anything with beeswax may/will attract insects or chipmunks, squirrels, and stuff like that which will nibble it off. I will start with the cheese wax, then maybe try to standard canning wax sold in general stores if it's cheaper. To apply the wax you need daubers, which are cheap and can be re-used from session to session until they are just too messy. 
 Also required is some way to melt your wax, and old yard sale pot on a small camp stove or hot plate will work fine. Build your setup with the understanding that you will have wood chips (from drilling) and wax drippings all over the place, it just happens.

 The process is simple: Drill all your holes, fill with spawn (using the tool or plugs), seal with wax over the hole, make a label, and staple it on the end of the log, then just stack in your fruiting location. You can do the whole thing on a plastic folding table (remember that hot wax). You just need something to keep that log from rolling while you are drilling it. A pair of 2x4's spaced a few inches apart (parallel) and connected to each other with cross pieces should wok just fine for a cradle on the table top.

 Although this is my first time doing this for myself, I have participated in a half dozen workshops and helped inoculate a few hundred logs in the past few years. I have also visited about a dozen different growing operations to get an idea of various setups. I thought this might be helpful to those thinking about giving it a go. If you are going to just do a half dozen logs, time and efficiency really is not as important and you can get by with a lot less "stuff" than I will be using. I figure my first go-through I will need to spend a little under or just around 100 bucks for supplies.

[Otis1]

I tried doing some mushroom logs a few years ago, had mixed results. I do still have one log that gives me some shiitakes. I think one mistake that I made was running out of wax and not sealing the ends of all the logs. I used an old crock pot from the thrift store to melt the wax. I also think location is important and maybe they weren't in enough shade and dried out easier. 

Field and Forest is a good ol Wisconsin company, they were on the WPR radio not too long ago. Very knowledgeable. 

Have you seen anyone use the "totem" method at all? I have some oak logs that are too big for plugs but might be worth experimenting with. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Yes, I had one client ordered specifically for totems, bigger logs up to 15" or so. He grew Loin's Mane on those and he said they produced like crazy. AFIK he is still growing on those logs and it has to be 4 years now.

 Where you stack/store your logs is critical. A shady moist area is best, little sun to dry them out. If they do dry too fast, you can always water them from time to time. Wind is also the enemy, so think about dark edges near flowing water. There are also blankets you can put over logs stacks. Insects and slugs can be a problem, so watch for that.

[aigheadish]

Great additional info Tom, thanks!

[Old Greenhorn]

Yesterday was back to work day in the shop. We had rain, sleet, snow, drizzle, and drips all day long. temp was about 37° all day. So I fires up the stove and started working on some things that have been waiting all winter. First, back in December I had decided that my sign at the end of the driveway needed improvement. What is the point of saying "by appointment only" if I don't give people a way to call and make an appointment? Also thought I needed to list a few general things I do. So I ordered the sign 'amendment' made, but then in January, the idiot started giving me grief and I let it drop for a while.
 Yesterday I figured it out and added the new section.


 I even put the right phone number on it.

 Along those same lines I had ordered a durable poster on vinyl made last December for the open house. I was not careful enough to leave enough border on it and wanted to keep the cost down. This presented a problem in displaying it. I used it for the open house by stapling it to the wall, but I can't do that at a show. I don't want to blow about $25-30 on a re-do, so I thought about it over the winter. Yesterday I worked on a picture frame using that very small margin. I got a sheet of plexi and used that on the front while using 1/4 pine off cuts to keep it flat from the back. I think it will work. I finished the frame itself, but am waiting for a little bit of wood filler to dry before final sanding and staining. Hopefully finish that off today, or nearly so.
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Today is cool all day, not warming much for a few days, then more precip. But I have an issue with my truck. There is grinding coming and going from the rear. I still can't tell if it's a wheel bearing, differential, or a u-joint. It could even be a stick jammed in somewhere from banging around in the woods. I even picked up some higher speed vibration yesterday for a short period. Now that the rain has  stopped and the sun is out I am going to see if I can draw a bead on the issue. The truck rolls fine, there is no resistance, the driveshaft does not clunk when I put it in reverse, it's weird. Possibly it's a hung up caliper, but that would not explain the vibration I had. color me confused.
Bill also has mill orders he is itching for me to get done.
 It's another day, time to get at it.

[SwampDonkey]

Always some challenges in life. 

[aigheadish]

The sign looks great!

[GRANITEstateMP]

Tom, to help pin point the problem with your truck can yoy easily remove the driveshaft by unbolting it?  is there a flange that'll stay in the trans (to prevent leaks) or does it slip in?  If its easy, key word if, thats a good way to check if it is a ujoint.  Just drive around in 4x4, no noise, then its a U joint.  Still got a noise...it ain't a driveshaft!  

  How many miles and when was the last time you did rear diff fluid?  Can always pull the plug and look for any metal.  If your do for a change then its just maintenance.  If you have limited slip, make sure to add the right oil or additive.  Is the noise just under acceleration, or only when coasting?

  Rear wheel bearings on trucks can be tougher to diag.  As you stated check things like a hung caliper first, if you can pinpoint which side that can help.  Back in my Toyota dealer days, the Tundra backing plates would rust and swell and come in contact with the rear rotor.  Some techs would try and sell you a wheel bearing kit (with new backing plate) and rotors.  An honest tech would usually let you know what the problem was and offer a few options.  The best option was pull the rotor and turn off the edge where the swelled bolts were rubbing. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Well I won't keep you in suspense. Bill found out about my 'issue' this afternoon and browbeat me into bringing the truck down to his shop after dinner tonight. It was a hard sell because I don't feel like doing much after dinner, and the weather here is cold and windy. But I succumbed to his  badgering and we pulled it in his shop and pulled the tire where we located the noise. Turned out I had snapped off the emergency brake cable and the end was rubbing on the inside of the wheel. We took a cutoff wheel and shortened the cable. I never use that brake anyway. It's likely I caught it on a stump or rock when banging through the woods.  But I have bad tire wear on the front (really need an alignment badly), so while it was there we rotated the tires. I need at least two tiers now. He checked his stock and didn't have my size. Then his girlfriend showed up and needed air in her tires, so I puled my truck further into the shop and she pulled in behind me. We filled all her ties and tried to locate any leaks in the one tire that keeps loosing air. No joy there. SO we had a cou0ple of beers and told stories. I couldn't leave until she pulled out anyway.

 So it was something simple, noise is gone and just to be sure that was all it was, I will take it on a high speed run tomorrow.

[SwampDonkey]

You must be like old logger Watson with his old 'skidder' Ford pickup truck going down skidder trails getting anything solid on the ground for firewood. He used to roll spruce logs width wise onto the side rails, get to the mill unhook the chains , give'r a jerk and let'm roll off. 

[Old Greenhorn]

SD I am not quite that bad, but I do tend to drive or back in and load Mushroom logs to save steps and sometimes with snow, it's hard to see all the obstacles underneath. Since the cable and sheath were not rotted at all I can see that it took quite a bit of force to break it off. It was kinked hard. Try as I might I still get bangs, dents, scratches in my truck. I don't want to beat it up, it's my only truck, but it still happens. I really thought this was rear wheel bearings because that truck is so often squatted down during my season and poking through the woods with that kind of load can be tough on a bearing.
 But it was simple this time. I'd rather be lucky than good.

[GRANITEstateMP]

Tom,

Sometimes its nice to have the fix be quick, easy, AND cheap!

[Old Greenhorn]

Well yeah, quick fix to get me peace of mind. But in this state, if you get a proper annual vehicle inspection, that emergency brake needs to work. I have never use it, it's an automatic. So at some point I will need to fix it proper. But I will wait for better weather and tie it in with another job. I've been thinking about adding air bags to those rear springs to balance my loads better, so maybe then.
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Sunny and a bit warmer today but still not spring weather as far as I am concerned. Pretty windy this morning dying down through the day. I built a fire in the shop stove and finished off that sign frame I was working on. Nothing special, not anywhere near my best work, but it does the job. I had this made up for my open house, it explains the basics of what I am and what I do and how/why I make my stuff. I have found myself repeating this stuff over and over in response to questions so I figured it was  a good idea to just put it on a sign for the folks who don't ask questions. 



Not even sure why I did it because I am rethinking doing shows this season. Last year was not great and everyone said it was because of the election year. This year the economy is crashing fast and nobody has any confidence in the personal finances, or should. My retirement accounts have lost 15% in value in the 1st quarter and that is before the big crashes of last week. So I am thinking the convivence spending is going to fall off a lot. I think shows will be flat dead this year except for small inexpensive items, which I am not selling. I am better off putting my time into firewood. But I will say I am still thinking of doing a spring open house the first weekend in May. It's easier, this one will be in the front of the shop which will draw more folks in as they drive by, maybe I will get lucky with a couple of sales.
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I also went out in the swamp and doped out some trees that have to come down. One is an EWP about 24" on the stump. The top came off in windstorm last year and the 40' stick is still standing and getting hammered by bugs and birds. I need to drop it in the right direction before nature puts it where I don't want it. I have 2 or 3 RO's that are dead and will be delicate and careful falls or they will destroy a drying rack and possibly 2, shed, or other stuff I don't want hit. But those are solid firewood, slow drying, but I'll take it. Get the down bucked and split in the next few weeks I have a chance of usable wood for fall. It's a shame, nice trees, tall and well formed but killed off by repeated gypsy moth attacks for 3 years running. But each is a very tricky fall and I will take my time and pray for the best. I also have a dead pine on the front lawn I have been meaning to take out for 2 years now. I just keep putting it off because of the hundreds of branches I will have to clean up on the lawn. There is no hiding it. Another careful fall job because, well, the house.  Now that I think of it, I have 3 that will need to be dropped int he backyard too. Geez, I got more tree work to do than I thought.  Maybe I should approach this as a project?

 Tomorrow is another day, I'll think more on it then.

[thecfarm]

Try as I might I still get bangs, dents, scratches in my truck. 

My tractor is the same way.
Some people who see it has a fit about my tractor.
But I put way more then 100 hours a year on my tractor too. 
And I do things that most people would never do too.
With 170 acres, instead of a house lot that is 500 feet square,   I use that poor thing, alot.
You need an old truck to pound around in the woods.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I think the military has the right idea on their trucks. A flat, non-glossy paint finish and such that you don't mind getting scratched or beat up.

   My cousin was telling me last week his truck was stolen and recovered and he had to get new fenders and a paint job from it being beaten up and bragged about making the insurance pay to redo the paint job because the shop painted it white instead of the Pearl it was supposed to be. The whole time I was thinking "Who the heck cares?"

   Be careful on those trees. If you need help sawing some real big ones I hear there is a guy in Mississippi trying to set some new records. I hear he likes to eat so if you feed him a good meal of Beef and Shitake mushrooms with grits and some Blue Bell ice cream for dessert you might coax him to come up. He likes to travel anyway.

[SwampDonkey]

Bernstein uses his old M37 for fetching firewood down grown in roads and dry gullies when he can otherwise the tractor and sometimes Grizzly with a cart behind. I never saw him cut wood ahead, he cuts mostly dead stuff for firewood, oak and ash. Set in his ways.