When to Give Up on a Potential Customer

[SawyerTed]

Got a FB Messenger contact from a potential customer.  She wanted me to saw 2x6' from cedar logs - 10 logs up to 20' long, 7" to 20" in diameter.   

She asked could I do the job in an hour?  When I explained 10 cedar logs wouldn't be enough for a half day, my minimum charge, she wanted to negotiate my rates.   "Over budget" could I saw for less since she had to buy the logs. "Can't afford..."  "Your rate is too high!"  "I'll be a good customer."  "Can get you more business."  "I have to provide a helper?!?"  Blah, blah, blah...

After about 10 messages of her pleading her case, I simply said, "There's no way I can cut your 10 logs for less than my minimum charge."   Crickets....

I tried but I spent 5 minutes too long on her.  

[Old Greenhorn]

........ "Can't afford..."  "Your rate is too high!"  .......

She got me with that one. I think I would have responded "You may be right, I think you should go find a sawyer who's rate is acceptable to you." and at that point, be done with her. You have to know that no matter what you did for her she would not be happy in the end.... and neither would you. Sounds like the person with "the Highly Valuable Walnut tree". Same thing, different day.

[SawyerTed]

I'm not happy after the messenger exchange.  Had to work too hard saying no.  

[trapper]

When selling campfire wood on facebook The more times they message and ask questions the less likely they are to buy

[Old Greenhorn]

Some people would not be happy even if you hung them with a brand new rope. She is one of those, don't walk, run away. I try to avoid doing mental battle with unarmed people, it's like mud wrestling with a pig. She had a LOT of issues that were clear in her approach toward you which was clear warning enough.
I think we all try to take a little time to educate folks about how we operate our businesses and why our charges are as they are, but some people are programmed to get all they can from a deal in anyway they can. They try to make their problems YOUR problems. None of us should let ourselves be dragged down that road but any of us can get sucked in if we are not careful. I can almost guarantee that even if you made price concessions, when you arrived she would have more demands and more complaints. It would be a bad day. You read it right and sent her on her way. Be prepared, she may come back after she tries some other sawyers, so have a plan.
I have seen her 'type' a hundred times through 10 different businesses. They are never " a good customer', they never 'send a lot more business' and on EVERY job, they need a cost concession for some special reason saying 'they will make it up on the next one" but.... they never do.

[WV Sawmiller]

    I do not negotiate.

    I tell them my rates and if they don't want to pay them it will not hurt my feelings one bit. I am crystal clear on my rates and what I provide and what they bring to the table.

     I always provide extra lumber when selling or extra services when sawing but I never negotiate. If they are super nice I may waive a mileage fee or a damaged band or such but I never negotiate my rates. I especially never negotiate after I have started or completed the sawing. If I switch from bf to hourly rate while in the middle of a job I advise them up front, get their concurrence before I start the change or I just don't saw that oddball piece for them. (BF for me is typically something like resawing a beam or such for them.)

    If a new or repeat customer brings me a single beam to square or resaw into a couple of boards I often just saw them at no charge and tell him we will make it up the next time he needs something sawed. Most of the time they will provide a tip. I have never lost money doing that.

[Magicman]

I have never and will never negotiate my sawing rates.  Same thing with sawing on shares.  Nope, I saw for $$.

I virtually only saw bf, but I put my hourly rate on the sawing contract just in case it is needed to saw something odd ball.

[YellowHammer]

I generally just say, "I think there's a sawmill down the road that will do it for that" and then they get excited and ask where it is and I say, "Oh, I have no idea, but I'm sure there is one somewhere, but it isn't here."  Actually, most times they laugh at that.    

Or I tell them I know a guy in Georgia who may do it, his name is Jake  @customsawyer and just call him up and tell him I sent you. Then I'll text Jake and tell him I landed a big job for him, and he should expect a call.  

I do have one elderly couple that has my number, whenever they show up to buy wood, they bring a steaming fresh flat of Krispy Kreme chocolate covered or jelly filled, or pink icing donuts Martha and I like.   And even though they have never asked for a discount, I give them one.  They are great people, and have been our customer for maybe 10 years.  

The only other time I will give discount is when a customer comes in to buy wood for a casket or urn for a family member or loved one. You can always tell if they are real, sometimes for the tears coming down their face.  I will always give them a discount, and if it's just an Urn, I usually give the wood to them for free.  I feel it gives me good Karma, and I can see they appreciate the gift in their time of grief.  Surprisingly, most times they won't even tell us what the wood is for, they are just privately grieving, but most times we can tell and it makes us feel better to maybe help them.  Those are pretty sad times.

  


       

[customsawyer]

YH and I have sent those kind of customers to each other for so long I think the word is starting to get out. I say that and we'll probably both get a couple of them today. The ones I don't like is when I send them to YH and then he sends them back. Dang it.

[jpassardi]

I got a smile out of you two breaking each other's stones. 

[SawyerTed]

Woke up in the night with a question that defies my ability to comprehend. 

Why did she buy 10 cedar logs but not have a sawyer lined up? 

Either she is that flighty OR she never had logs and was doing research for a competitor.  One gives her the benefit of the doubt and one gives her too much credit. 

[jpassardi]

I agree Ted, it sounds suspicious. Either way, she's a problem - but not yours.

[Magicman]

As you know I will occasionally saw a job Goodwill but it is because I want to, not at the instance of the customer.  My thought is that if I just do a discount, it is not a gift but just that; a discount.  If I do it for free, then it truly is a gift from the heart which is/was my intent.

I can think of four (4) this year.   

[Nebraska]

I'm glad I really don't have sawmill customers. The sawmill is my place to hide from the same types of stuff at my day job. 

[WV Sawmiller]

Robert,

    Giving a discount for donuts is not negotiation, it is simply bartering one highly valuable commodity for another which is totally acceptable in WV and many other regions, especially the southern USA.

    On a good barter both parties get what the want/need and in the back of their head they may actually think they came out a little ahead in the process.

[Dave Shepard]

Often the customer is in need of an education. And I don't say that in a bad way, they don't know how the game is played yet. If they are ineducable, you must move them along and out of your life. I had one person ask for 1"x3"x6' fence boards. They could be 73" or 74" or so, but no longer, because he didn't want to pay for any extra.   I explained how 8' was the minimum commercial log length, but I'd try and help him out. I didn't tell him all I had in the yard was 12', and I was going to cut them in half anyway. He just didn't know custom sawing was different than a lumber yard. Next, he wanted 4.5"x4.5" posts, because you could only get 3.5"x3.5" or 5.5"x5.5" at the store.

[SawyerTed]

Dave, yes.  Education is a big part of custom sawmill and portable sawing.  

A customer has to be receptive and most are.  Occasionally there's one who isn't.  

There's any number of discounts a fellow can apply.  Anything from veterans, for the disabled, friends and relatives, really good help, great logs, thanks for lunch, and even donuts discounts are possible and good reasons.

There's not a I feel sorry for you because you are dumb, cheap and ignorant on purpose discount. 

[barbender]

You can have discounts, or you can also have what a job bidder on an asphalt crew I worked with called the "weirdo price". In times when business was slow, he would bid jobs that he would typically walk away from because of the vibe the person gave him- but tack on 10, 20, 30% depending on his sense of trouble ahead.

[Resonator]

One of the hardest things to do as a business, is to say NO to a potential customer. Especially when business is down, and the bills are due. I just suggest to them there are other mills out there to do their job, I'm not the only one.
I've worked with other businesses where all they did is say yes to every customer. This ends up where they are completely overloaded with work, and don't have staff to cover it. In the end everything ends up suffering because of it.
That's also where being your own boss has it's advantages. YOU decide who you take on as a client, and determine how much hassle you're getting into.

[red]

Many times here at Forestry Forum we have talked about Starvation Wages . . usually talking about pallet wood or railroad tie operations 
I used to work in a very busy auto parts store back in 1985 and people would be lined up waiting for parts because we were the biggest and the best store in the area . . we would laugh at people who wanted a Discount because everyone knew they paid a higher price to get good quality auto parts 

[SawyerTed]

Then there's a PIA surcharge...

[Kingcha]

Years ago(seems like a whole other life) I was in the restaurant business and back then you'd always hear, The customer is always right.  I actually heard customers say it.   Well I never did run with the crowd well. My motto was the Customer is Usually right, but occasionally they are wrong and our free to go elsewhere.   My waitstaff liked me cause they knew I'd back them when we had one of those few bad ones.   I am sure we lost business but it was the ones we didn't really want.

[jpassardi]

I worked in a garage though HS & College. A guy bought a set of tires and came back complaining about a very slight vibration/wheel balance a couple times. On the last time my boss the owner ripped the weights off the wheels, handed him back the cash he paid and told him to never come back! 

[Dave Shepard]

Some times you just have to get even. I know someone who worked at a VW garage. A lady kept complaining about poor mileage. They made up some story about a test they could perform on her car, but she'd have to bring it in once a week. They just put a couple gallons of gas in. She had the best mpg ever. There was a flip side where they started sucking gas out, but I don't remember how that went. Then one of the guys involved cut his service managers desk on half with a chainsaw while he was sitting at it.

[WV Sawmiller]

   The critical lesson is not to wait too long. I tell people my sawing is a cost neutral hobby - it pays for itself (and a little more) but I don't need it to live on and every job that is not fun is wasted time and effort for me. When I get that first vibe I cut them loose.