Electric fence standard/spacers

[TreefarmerNN]

We run solar powered electric fence for our cattle, both permanent and temporary.  Along the woods edge of one pasture we have a combo fence with high tensile electric and a strand of barbed wire, not electrified.  Because of roots and the difficulty of getting posts in the ground, the span between posts is sometimes 30'. 

That pasture is also a favorite for deer.  If they jump over the fence- it's not a big problem. When they go through the fence, they sometimes flip the electrified wire over the grounded barbed wire shorting the fence out.  We used to be able to get wood spacers made from some wood in New Zealand that had minimal conductivity but our source has dried up for that. 

Has anyone used eastern red cedar or black locust for something like that?  Information on conductivity is scant especially for conductivity along the grain rather than cross grain.  The wood needs to be relatively water repellent as free water will surely conduct so I thought of those two options or possibly black walnut.  I have all three available.

If there are other ideas, I'd like to hear them.

[beenthere]

Seems any material with insulators installed would hold the lateral wires apart. Could be wood or steel, as long as it would hold an insulator to clip to the electrified wire.

[doc henderson]

are you wanting the wood for the barbed wire, so it is not grounded?  or for the electric.  water does not conduct unless there is sugar or electrolytes.  are the plastic ones expensive or fragile?  that is what is used here.  wood is a relatively poor conductor unless high voltage and amps, like lightning.   If it was a great conductor, voltage would go to ground and not damage the tree.  but it generates heat, and water expands in an instant and part of the tree blows off.  as an example, the copper wire does not explode.

[TreefarmerNN]

The spacers from New Zealand did not require insulators.  They had holes drilled in them and essentially the wires, both hot and ground we attached with basically large cotter pins.  Two versions- one just a spacer and a 2"x2" longer version that actually was a post you could drive into the ground. 

If cedar could work for the spacers, that would be good enough.

The plastic posts are ok but are subject to damage both from sunlight and impact.  While our cows are trained for electric fence, the deer aren't and cause the problems.  While we've used a lot of steel posts and insulators in the woods, all it takes is one cracked or missing insulator and the fence shorts out against the steel.  Plus, like much else the price of steel and insulators is quite a bit higher than if I just cut some cedar or locust which basically only costs my mill time.

Thanks for all the comments- keep them coming.

[beenthere]

Cedar will work. 

[doc henderson]

got it so a wooden post, not an insulator.

[doc henderson]

would little red flags on the wire help the deer to see it and clear it?

[TreefarmerNN]

Possibly but they know the fence is there- and I'm not really sure it would make much difference. They seem to poke a nose through the fence and then probably get hit by a jolt and push quickly enough to flip a wire.  It's tough to keep enough tension on the fence due to limbs falling. 

And frankly, I'm not sure I want to be replacing flags on about 800 yards of fence. Next time I run the mill, I'll make some cedar stays (spacers) and see what kind of voltage comes through the wood.  The charger normally puts out 4-6,000 volt bursts but it's low amperage.  It gets your attention but causes no damage, and yes I've personally tested that theory usually when I need to flip a wire and the charger is on the other side of the field so it's either a long walk or a quick shock. If I'm wearing the right boots, I barely feel it.  If the boots are conductive, I may say a word or two that's not for a family web site.

Even plastic posts have some leakage but it's minimal and mostly due to what's on the outside of them- mildew, dust, insect nests etc.  Cedar will have some also but if it's not more than a few hundred volts, that's not a big deal.  We get some voltage drop due to weeds growing up and hitting the fence, branches hitting it etc.  Those are minor compared to a direct ground when a wire flips against a grounded wire.  If the soil is always moist, there wouldn't be any need for the barbed wire but in summer when it's dry, calves will just ignore the hot wires.  They simply don't have enough ground to feel it.  But if they push between a grounded wire and a hot wire, they learn quickly that fences aren't fun.  The trick is to maintain the spacing between wires with nature wanting to return things back to the earth.   

[Ianab]

I imagine a light dry wood like cedar would be a reasonable insulator. Actually not commonly used in my part of NZ, because it rains a LOT. Wet wood isn't such a good insulator.

In your scenario it might work better to use a wooden batten (2 x 2") with an insulated staple for the hot wire(s), and regular for the barbed? That keeps the insulation up even in the rain. Then your own cedar battens and a box of insulated staples shouldn't cost that much. The cedar should last a long time if it's not in ground contact. 

This sort of thing. 
https://nz.speedrite.com/products/permanent-fencing-accessories/insulators/wood-post-staple-insulator

[TreefarmerNN]

I hadn't seen those before- it looks like a good solution.  The insulators we've bought typically take two nails into the post.

Thanks.

[doc henderson]

i was thinking for the deer so they do not take out the fence.  we have plenty of expert fence folk in Ks, but i am not one of them. 

[TreefarmerNN]

With the fence literally the dividing line between forest and field, it's pretty easy for the deer to know the fence is there.  I guess a buck looking for love from out of the area could get surprised but most of our deer don't move much.  I doubt they go as much as 1/2 mile from where they are born.  There's no real need- food, water and safe shelter are all there so they become very, very aware of what's in the area.  The exceptions might be during the rut and if dogs or coyotes are chasing a deer.  Then the fence might be forgotten and a deer hit it.  Normally I think the issue is when the decide to skinny through it rather than jumping it.

FWIW, I disconnected part of that fence today as we don't have cows in that section.  The remaining part of the fence is pretty hot- 6,900- 7,200 volts.  With the ground currently wet, that will wake up most critters. . . and forgetful humans.