What market to get into cutting logs?

[kalebair]

Just got a woodland hm126 10 foot sawmill. Im in need for advice and knowledge of what to cut and sell out of mostly hardwood logs. I've been cutting wood slices which is a decent seller but they need to dry and while they do i need to find something else to do with the big logs. I have a lap siding kit. What do you think would be the best market, things like beams, mantle, for furniture and what width/thickness dimensional or live edge, lap siding, or should I start getting pine logs for construction, things like that. Im not looking to get real big into it and i dont have much room and things have to air dry for now. thankful for any response

[beenthere]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Where to start with your questions. ??

Experience sawing logs would be a question. What was the incentive to buy a sawmill another. Location another, and how much area do you have to setup a sawmill another. Support equipment to haul logs, to move logs, to move lumber, to move slabs, to move sawdust, and the list can go on and on.
Retired or still have a working job?

So, please fill us in, as your endeavor sounds very interesting. Look forward to more discussion.

[SawyerTed]

Seems like every time I cut on speculation, I get a call for something else.  

Trailer decking is a good choice as is anything 2x4, 2x6, 2x8. I tend to keep 1x6 around because people like that for sheathing roofs/metal roofing nailers. 

I keep a few live edge pieces, maybe 6 book matches and a few mantles around. 

Otherwise, if someone needs more than what I might have on hand, they need to supply logs.

As is often mentioned here, I try to be a portable sawmill not  a lumber yard and not a stationary mill.  

[Magicman]

My original supposedly business profile was to saw and sell which I did for the first year.  That year taught me that it was not right for me although it did repay me for the sawmill cost.  After that, I sold and gave away all of my remaining lumber inventory and have now been lumber free for over 20 years.  I only provide a portable sawing service sawing customer's logs into their cut list at their location.  

[kalebair]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Where to start with your questions. ??

Experience sawing logs would be a question. What was the incentive to buy a sawmill another. Location another, and how much area do you have to setup a sawmill another. Support equipment to haul logs, to move logs, to move lumber, to move slabs, to move sawdust, and the list can go on and on.
Retired or still have a working job?

So, please fill us in, as your endeavor sounds very interesting. Look forward to more discussion.

I have used a chainsaw mill before and it is a struggle, so this is my first. I got a sawmill because I wanted a new opportunity, I think it's fun and getting paid to do it is even better, also I have many logs to cut already. Im still a teen so I thought what would be better than making money at home while I can't drive myself for now, I paid half with my dad. I'm in southern Pa. I don't have much room as I'm stacking boards on wrap around porch right now so I'm not looking to get big orders . I have loaded 1000  pound logs onto a 16ft trailer on an incline first time with a rope and 2 people and some tools😅. Second time around with a hand winch and some more strength. I don't have a tractor so I do most by hand but if I really do I use my neighbors tractor. The mill is on wheels. I don't have a everyday job and I do online school so I'm always free

[kalebair]

Seems like every time I cut on speculation, I get a call for something else. 

Trailer decking is a good choice as is anything 2x4, 2x6, 2x8. I tend to keep 1x6 around because people like that for sheathing roofs/metal roofing nailers.

I keep a few live edge pieces, maybe 6 book matches and a few mantles around.

Otherwise, if someone needs more than what I might have on hand, they need to supply logs.

As is often mentioned here, I try to be a portable sawmill not  a lumber yard and not a stationary mill. 

good to know

[LeftFinger]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Where to start with your questions. ??

Experience sawing logs would be a question. What was the incentive to buy a sawmill another. Location another, and how much area do you have to setup a sawmill another. Support equipment to haul logs, to move logs, to move lumber, to move slabs, to move sawdust, and the list can go on and on.
Retired or still have a working job?

So, please fill us in, as your endeavor sounds very interesting. Look forward to more discussion.

I have used a chainsaw mill before and it is a struggle, so this is my first. I got a sawmill because I wanted a new opportunity, I think it's fun and getting paid to do it is even better, also I have many logs to cut already. Im still a teen so I thought what would be better than making money at home while I can't drive myself for now, I paid half with my dad. I'm in southern Pa. I don't have much room as I'm stacking boards on wrap around porch right now so I'm not looking to get big orders . I have loaded 1000  pound logs onto a 16ft trailer on an incline first time with a rope and 2 people and some tools😅. Second time around with a hand winch and some more strength. I don't have a tractor so I do most by hand but if I really do I use my neighbors tractor. The mill is on wheels. I don't have a everyday job and I do online school so I'm always free

Color me impressed  and good luck to you.

[thecfarm]

You know what work is all ready.
When you start selling lumber, get yourself a Logrite cantdog or peavey. They are a sponsor on here,nice people and made in the USA and a tool every mill owner should have.

[red]

Like you already mentioned its good to know the weight of every log you are working with . . enjoy what you are learning

[kalebair]

You know what work is all ready.
When you start selling lumber, get yourself a Logrite cantdog or peavey. They are a sponsor on here,nice people and made in the USA and a tool every mill owner should have.

i do have that tool, forgot what it was called. makes it so much easier

[barbender]

Hey Kalebair! It sounds like you have plenty of the most important thing- ambition!👍👍

It's hard to know exactly what to saw to keep "in stock", because that will be specific to your area. Although I don't get to it much, whenever I saw 4/4 hardwood and put it on stickers, someone will come and buy it before I get to use it myself. So maybe that's the secret, saw a bunch of stuff for your own projects and someone will come and buy it before you can use it😊

Seriously, I would saw a few things that you may have a use for yourself, and then put an ad out somewhere for them. I use Facebook Marketplace, you may or may not be on there. But even a flyer at the local gas station can do the trick. Even if someone doesn't need what tou have on hand, they may ask, "can you saw such and such for me?" Then you can come back on here and ask, "what would you guys charge to saw...?"😊 

[cutterboy]

Welcome Kalebair! It's nice to see a young man with ambition and a willingness to work.
I saw lumber and sell lumber as a serious hobby and 90% of what I sell is 4/4 boards (one inch thick).
I'd suggest you air dry the lumber and put an add on Craigslist or Facebook Market Place. Tell what you have and add some pictures. You live in southern Pa. so you must have a large population within 50 miles. That's lots of potential customers.
I wish you the very best of luck!

[thecfarm]

What about build something to sell.
Planting boxes,the ones on legs, one members builds outhouses.

[YellowHammer]

Looks like you are getting a good start, congratulations.  However, for your location, your situation, your logs, your production rate, there is only one way to really answer your question, and that is to let the customers tell you.

Of course, you will have some constraints due to your age and lack of transportation, but you could also use that in your favor.  Use the internet and word of mouth.   

As many posts have indicated, a successful business must saw and sell what people will buy, and it is very location and sawmill specific, and musty be organic.  The business must literally grow itself, to be successful.

So you should mill small amounts of everything you think you can produce, and try to sell it.  Some products will move, some will not, and the more customers you get, the more you should listen to them, and then your products and sawing strategy will evolve. 

You can't sell a product customers don't want, and you can't sell a product you don't have.  I am always listening to the customers and always evolving the business and what I cut and sell. It's a constant process.

I can't tell you how many time I have been contacted by a sawmill startup and they say "I have piles and piles of lumber just sitting here, and I can't sell it.  What should I do?"  My answer is invariabley, "Well, why did you keep sawing stuff that people didn't want?  Do you see a lot of pink colored pickup trucks sitting in the car dealer lots?  Of course not."

So saw a little bit of everything, do a little bit of everything, talk to everyone who uses wood, including concrete contractors who buy wood for forms, garden shops who sell tomato stakes in the springtime, garden shed makers, anybody who uses wood, as well as CL and FB and shotgun everybody until you get a foothold on what sells.  Also, custom sawing is a great way to make money as well. 

So do it all, try it all, don't get discouraged, listen to the customers, and saw what sells.

It's pretty easy. 

 

[Warren]

"What to saw?" --> "What your customers need and cannot get elsewhere..."

What worked well for me in my area was (1) custom sawing customer logs.  And (2) oak wagon flats for farm wagons, and white oak beams/runners for the wagon flats. 20 years ago, most wagon flats being sold in this area had 4x8 or 4x9 inch runners.  I sawed my runners at 5x9 up to 20ft, and 6x10 up to 24ft.  I sold all of the larger cross section runners I could get logs for.  Today, a lot of farmers around here are using heavy C-channel and bolting a board to the top  because they can not get decent oak wagon rails. 

Regardless what you are sawing, the basics of Customer Service are key:  Clean, straight lumber, well packaged, ready to load when the customer arrives, at a price that is fair to the customer AND to you...

Just my dos colones.  Best of luck with your new enterprise !

[Magicman]

I do not sell but the most often question that I am asked is from folks looking for White Oak trailer decking.  There again inventory; how thick and how long?

[customsawyer]

I can't agree with Yellowhammer enough. YH and I both sell a good bit of lumber. Some years I cut a lot more of one product than another. Two years later it's reverse. In 2021 I was cutting mostly 2x4s because they were so expensive in town. Now days I refuse to cut them, most of the time, because they are cheaper in town than I pay for my logs. I want my customers to receive value from my services/product. 

[Nebraska]

Wonderful to see a young person with your motivation. Good luck on your journey. 

[jpassardi]

Yes I agree, great to see your motivation. 
It does sometimes seem like whatever you have isn't what people are looking for.
I think what can really change what you have to offer is having a kiln. Long term I would aspire to that. 

[longtime lurker]

The kiln issue is relevant... what you can do is determined by the log resource available; species, size and grade, and volume. But in this industry what you can't do is determined by the equipment you don't have... treatment plant, kilns and drymill equipment, mills that cut longer or wider or faster. Some of which can be hired so once you get rolling it pays to investigate what might be available by way of contract drying or machining.

But my advice would be to concentrate on mastering what you can do with what you have first.  Saw, saw some more, and keep on sawing until you can consistently produce a marketable product. Bypass your best logs and cut the lower grade ones. Cut products where sizing and straightness isn't super critical that can be sold green off saw until you can make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Only then start cutting your better logs when you wont be just butchering them. Learn to cut every order out of the worst possible log that will barely cut what you want...hoard good logs for the higher value jobs that need them.

Back to the kiln thing I've watched so many guys come into this industry and spend a small fortune on equipment and go nowhere with it. And if you asked them the issue they'll tell you they needed this toy or that toy that they didn't have to make it all better. Me I started with a portable mill and ran that thing until it was shot then bought a bigger one, and I tell ya I took crazy jobs for poor money plenty of times, and worked like I had a wife and kids to feed and a mortgage to pay because I had those things. But I built a business based on a quality product and on time delivery and it grew and continues to grow.

Don't worry about a kiln until you can cut a board worth kilning day in and day out. Badly sawn KD lumber is still badly sawn, just drier.

[Magicman]

Identifying, locating, and developing your market is at least equal to your product regardless of it's quality or quantity.  Unsold inventory does not produce income.

[WV Sawmiller]

Yes I agree, great to see your motivation. 
It does sometimes seem like whatever you have isn't what people are looking for.
I think what can really change what you have to offer is having a kiln. Long term I would aspire to that.

Be flexible. There is the same amount of bf in a 1X8 and a 2X4 but once you saw it you are stuck with what you cut. As long as it is a log you can still do either or make 1-7/32" boards if that is what the customer wants.

I agree a kiln is nice but from your OP you are still short on space and equipment and I'd concentrate on specialty orders and sawing customer logs till that changes. Besides, if you kiln dry lumber and don't sell it right away it will draw moisture back unless you have climate controlled storage which it seems you do not at this time.

I tell people I am a sawmill, not a lumberyard. I can't compete with the variety of the big box stores but they can't compete with me when someone needs a special item.

Good luck

[SawyerTed]

You are young, motivated and energetic.  Good things for sure.  

BUT don't overlook the business practices you will need to stay in business.   

The stock to sell is important, no doubt.  The equipment list is, of course, important.  

But so is KNOWING what it costs to make a unit of X product.  Knowing if you are really operating at a profit, recycling the same $1,000 or losing money.   

A small business class in high school, community college, through FFA, the Ag Extension Service or local chamber of commerce won't hurt.  It's not possible for one course to teach or for you to learn everything, so continuing your learning is essential.  It's never TOO early.  

[Bradm]

But so is KNOWING what it costs to make a unit of X product.  Knowing if you are really operating at a profit, recycling the same $1,000 or losing money.

This can't be emphasized enough.  The amount of people who go into business and think they're making money hand over fist yet can't tell you how much they netted out for the year is shockingly high.

@ the OP, If you use credit, use it sparingly until you gain enough experience to understand how to use it and the risks that come with it, and work out how you will pay it off if everything goes south on you before you take the loan.

[Old Greenhorn]

 I just re-read this whole thread and can say that all of the suggestions and comments you have been given are spot on and won't mislead you, plus you have a work ethic and that is golden. Good for you. First thought I have is 'calm down'.  Do what you can, with what you have, where you are. That's a good ethos to follow. When you NEED more 'stuff' to advance sales or production you will already know exactly what that is for you and won't need to ask us. Take your time and pick your own way.
 
I worked 50 years in manufacturing everything from microchips to chocolate bars. Those companies were filled with 'college boys' (no offence to anyone intended) who never actually 'made' anything in their lives and they were really big on spreadsheets and numbers that served to really confuse the overall operations. We were always shooting for sales goals and making decisions based on numbers that showed up in spreadsheets. It was all very confusing and kept the mission target floating back and forth.
 
When I retired and set up my little retirement 'business experiment' it quickly became apparent to me that I was no longer encumbered by the bean counters and could do what I wanted... for good or bad. What I did was pick about 4 things I could, and would enjoy doing, I thought. (Small property consulting, Custom Milling, rustic furniture, and mushroom logs. This last being a long shot, but what the hell.) What I did was a little of each. I milled some lumber and air dried it, selling about half of what I milled. I found that everybody wanted sizes that I had not milled. So I switched to milling to order and selling whatever I had if it worked for the client. I also enjoyed the consulting work, it was easy and I like working with landowners, but I only had a limited amount of jobs even though I was cheap. The rustic furniture was off and on, sometimes hot with 5 projects backed up, and sometimes not. I also built up inventory, bought an enclosed trailer and outfitted it for shows and did the circuit for a while. By the numbers, that didn't work out too well, but I picked up several custom build orders from that. I kept detailed records on all my sales and clients from each 'section' analyzing after the fact what it actually cost me and what I made/lost in the process. Much of that can be read elsewhere on the forum.

 Sparing you the rest of the details, here is a breakdown of what I learned from that. Put your foot in the water with each aspect you decide to attempt but don't jump in with both feet, keep other ideas moving along at the same time. Do your work, put up some product and see what happens, but don't build a lot of stock until you see that it sells. Learn from that and look at your numbers. Make adjustments and alter your plan, or try something new. Funny thing for me was, that 'long shot' with the mushroom logs turned out to be the best and most reliable money maker over 5 years. Who knew?! Yes, I began selling too cheap and broke even, but I adjusted prices and found some surprising results. I am the most expensive seller in my state and I sell more logs than anybody. Now does that make sense? Business is weird and not always logical. Being a straight bean counter would not allow me to predict that. It was the market experience and taking a risk (raising my price above what everyone else was charging) that told me that, but it works for me. But I am getting old and that is really hard work I am losing my ability to do. But the reason I make decent money at it was only because I tracked my time and expenses and adjusted my pricing based on that. If my prices became too high and sales fell, then that's not the stuff I wanted to sell. Never sell at a loss or even close, walk away from that every time.

 Think it through, but be business like and keep good records. You may get too busy to compile your numbers many times, but in the winter or on those snow days, you can sit down and sort them out. Spreadsheets are NOT the enemy, they just need to be used responsibly and with good purpose that serves you.

 You will do fine, I am sure. Just remember to pay attention to the things you learn and see as you go along. First thing for you is to learn how to read a log and learn how to mill it for best yield and quality. That is a key point. Improve your skills, the rest you can figure out. This business is SO VERY market dependent on you own particular area that there are very few tactics that apply across the board. As you read through the many threads discussing this on the forum, you will see what I mean.

 Happy hunting, it is quite a trip.