It's Snapper Time!

[YellowHammer]

They opened up Red Snapper season and we took off last week to load the freezer, or that was the plan.  Plus I wanted to try out some new "super tech" tackle that is about as heavy as a bass outfit, but will haul in Moby Dick, as opposed to the old school heavy saltwater rods and reels. 

We fished the week, the boat worked great, the tackle worked great, to the point that my brother adopted one of my two super combos for the entire trip!  Even fighting and hauling in a 15 lb snapper with less trouble than his old tackle.

We limited out every day but one, most fish were 4 to 10 lbs, and the biggest problem was getting enough ice, because it was hot. 

The tides were real high and low, so there was a major offshore current tripping, nearly 2.5 mph, which is stupid fast, but the GPS system and computerized digital independent steering on the boat was able to help me keep it locked on a spot so I could fish. Look Ma, no hands!  It did kind of freak my Sister in Law out when we exited the harbor, she asked where were were going, I said 22 miles, selected a waypoint on the screen, hit "navigate" and the boat hands off, throttled up, adjusted the trim tabs for best fuel economy, held course, throttled down when we got to the fishing spot, and locked us in on top of it, in 120 feet of water.  I was otherwise occupied eating some Pringles and drinking a Gatorade, and enjoying the ride.

Here are some pics, the guy in the front is my BIL, and he is a true catfisherman, you can tell.  He showed up with a "secret" bait, rotten shrimp dipped in liver.  His favorite catfish bait.  Needless to say, the little bitty snapper were keeping him busy, while I told him to out on a decent sized bait, like what is in the bucket.  Big snapper like big meat, and they attack it like a shark with an attitude problem.

We got checked by the wardens, 30 miles out, no problems, and were plagued by porpoise and sharks, getting free lunch stealing the fish as we reeled the snapper up.  So we would have to move to get away from them, or if the Flippers (porpoise) tried following us, we would drive by another boat and "brush them off to the other boat."  It's kind of an old school trick to the other boats, but hey, Flipper has to eat, too.  Just not my fish!

Anyway, this is our rig parked at a Rest Stop on the way home as well as some of the weather we were dodging.   

[YellowHammer]

More pictures 

[Jeff]

I think the one time I went salt water fishing, I caught one and had to let it go. Boy was I bummed.

[WV Sawmiller]

Jeff,

   You have me beat. The last time I went fishing off-shore was on a trip with my wife's high school band seniors. I think we went about 50 miles off-shore at the NC/SC line and fished about half a day. When we got done I gave my squid (bait) back to the skipper. I couldn't even get the crabs to eat it off.

[tule peak timber]

These pics are dated but they are my fish. Loran A, then "C" for navigation and not much creature comforts. GPS was just on the horizon and limits and regulations were much more lax than they are today. I pursued red fish with a vengeance from the Gulf of Alaska to Central America to some note. 90% of fisherman catch 10% of the documented landings. 10 % of fishermen catch 90 % of the fish. A different world today. Limiting on an opening is pretty nice, kudos.

[YellowHammer]

Fishing off most 6 pack charters is a total waste of time, as you guys mention.  In my experience, the bait that gets stolen is your money.  Small boat charter or private fishing is a whole different ball game. 

This is our 4th saltwater boat, and it's pretty new, I'm still working on learning it. This is my first with digital independent steering, where the engines serve as stern thrusters and can turn independent of each other, and shift in and out of forward and reverse, via the control computer.  It even has a joystick, I can pull up to a dock, move the joystick sideways, one engine will shift into forward, the other into reverse, and I can crab sideways.  I've got many, several thousand hours of "captain" time, because at one point I wanted to get a professional captains ticket, years ago, so I can do all these maneuvers by hand, in my sleep, but it's cool to go high tech, too.   

The depth finder technology is amazing, I've got two different transducers that can shoot both forward and sideways at several different frequencies, tuned for surveying bottom, fish, or bait fish, and my twin computer displays show three dimensional bottom detail, mapped from space satellites.  A WW2 submarine destroyer would not have 1/10 of today's recreational boat sonar capability.  My boat position is accurate to within 3 feet, anywhere in the world, and when baited line are going down, I can see the bait, the weight, and sometimes, even the fishing line on the display. 

The tackle we are shifting to is stupid high drag offshore tuna caliber, but weigh about as much as bass tackle, but have disk drag systems like the calipers disk brakes in cars and trucks.

The rods are new technology also, they are designed with new carbon fiber X wrap, so are crazy lightweight, but are designed to stop Great Trevalky, off the Great Barrier Reef, arguably one of the hardest fighting fish in the ocean.  We fish lures are well as bait, and although the rods look small, they are designed to flex all the way up into the grip, for maximum pressure.  What is surprising are these types of outfits have more "power" beating fish and fighting than our old school heavy saltwater pool stick rods and reels. Of course, we are using braided spectra super line, from Japan, incredibly thin but strong.  We have to turn the drags down on strike, or if we get a surprise hit, we will get dragged across the deck! 

This kind of fishing is best described as "combat fishing" because of the intensity of the strikes and fights. When everything is dialed in, and on the right spots, the hits are fast and furious, and most people give out pretty quick, they just look at me, say they've had enough, and sit down!  Of course, that has never happened to me!  I love this stuff. I've had a good day when I've caught enough that my hands are cramping up on the boat steering wheel for the steam home.

As you say, 10% of the anglers catch 90% of the fish.  With all this tech, fishing can still be difficult, the guy a couple boat slips down was struggling catching limits of big fish, even though I tried help him.  He went out 43 miles one day, and caught one keeper. Ouch! We finally figured out his problem, he was baiting his hook wrong, he was hooking his live bait through the lips, and we had moved to the hooking them in the eye socket, and it made all the difference between success or failure.  That little thing.  Saltwater fish are choppers, they like to cut baits in half, from the rear, like a shark biting someone on the leg.  So when he was hooking his crappie sized live bait through the lips, a big snapper would chomp and shake its head, and rip the bait completely off the hook and be gone.  When a big live bait is hooked through the eye sockets, basically into the skull, a big snapper will chomp and shake and rip the bait in half, and will circle back for the rest, which has a the big 7/0 hook in it.  Just that little bit of understanding fish behavior had him limit out the last day.  He was as happy as could be. 





 

[thecfarm]

Whatever you do, you get the best out of it!!!

[customsawyer]

Looks like a great trip. 

[YellowHammer]

This is a video of the tackle we have switched to from the standard ocean style pool cue that is the norm for saltwater fishing.  I have both the bottom rods and casting rods styles in this video and few hours of fighting fish like this on the water is a blast.

This video also shows why it's called "combat" fishing, and how much effort it takes to bring in these critters. 

I love bass fishing, but it is such more civilized, more technical, this is just a whole different game.

[Machinebuilder]

Nice fishing trip.

Thanks for explaining the tech involved with your boat.
I know people around here using the liveview sonar and have seen screen shots of it, WOW

My limited saltwater experience is not that awesome. The halibut charter was the best but due to lack of knowledge was the wrong time and lack of planning on my part.
I think those charters do their best to put customers on fish, but not big fish.

[Jeff]

The fishing trip I was on was a party boat. Grunts were plentiful, and some other ugly looking creatures.

[YellowHammer]

Grunts were plentiful, and some other ugly looking creatures.

Were you talking about the fish or the passengers?

A lot of the marinas I frequent are charter marinas, and if you knew the way many charter captains disrespectfully talk about their "clients" it would burn your ears and you'd toss them in the water.  Not all the captains, but a lot of them.  

So the thing about charter boats, is you have to know the captain and the boat.  For example, if it's a full time, 'tourist" charter, then you ain't gonna catch much.  These guys go out every day, sometimes twice a day, and they will purposefully not let clients load the boat with fish, because they have another charter in the afternoon or tomorrow, and the last thing they want to do is empty a fishing hole, and struggle tomorrow with different clients.  It's called the "drift off" and once a few fish are caught, they simply drift off the spot and magically, the fish stop biting...  

So they will let you catch a few, then purposely move off, and save some to for tomorrow's charter.  Then they will spend the rest your charter searching for new spots on your time.  Worst case, you don't catch anything, best case, they find a new spot and you start catching fish again, until they ration you off.  

On the other hand, if you can book a "small boat charter" with a captain who isn't franchised and trying to make a name for themselves, then they will put you on some fish because they get the photo of you with big smile for their webpage.  This would include older specialty charters, like swordfish trips with expensive multi day trips.

Or a charter captain like @caveman who still loves to fish, and enjoys watching others catch fish, then you will have a good time.  

Unfortunately, most captains forget your name as soon as they get your money.

[Larry]

The US Air Force sentenced me to a 3 year tour of duty in Hawaii during the early 70's. One of the benefits was the Air Force provided a couple of charter fishing boats at very affordable rates. We tried to go fishing about once a month or so. There would be 6-8 fishing with a Captain and first mate. Fished for marlin, mahimahi, tuna, and the occasional sailfish. Most of us lived in the barracks or small apartments so really didn't have facilities to clean or store fish so often the Captain was given the fish and sold them.

Biggest problem was getting enough folks together for the charter. Hawaii seas could be really big, especially in winter and getting sea sick was common. I guess for some an experience they don't want to ever repeat. One trip, the Captain and me were the only two who weren't sick.

These days I like to fish from my kayak on Beaver Lake Arkansas. This spring a striper pulled me all over the lake free of charge!

[YellowHammer]

Hawaii?  That would be so cool!  

Just until a few years ago, I would get on a charter, tell the captain I didn't want to keep any and he could have them.  So a captain could get a double limit, and sell them.  Sometimes, that would be the ticket, they would put me on fish, because basically, I was their crew.

Recently, laws have been put in place to curb that, and the charter captain and crew has no quota.  

However, a commercial captain has a tremendous quota, and can use electric winch "bandit reels" with multiple hooks, basically no size limit where I do, and they specialize in "vacuming" snapper off the spots.  I have been fishing a spot, having to release undersize snapper to "save the species" as I am told by the Game Wardens, and then have a commercial snapper fisherman come up, drop 15 hook rigs, one on each side of the boat, and start winching up all the snapper I am required to release.  

I can't really fault the skipper, he is within the law, but the laws need to be changed.  Unlike freshwater, where gamefish are protected from commercial fishing, there are quite few species that are commercially valuable and the recreational and commercial fisherman are always at odds.        

[Magicman]

A Snapper question.  ??  I have caught Red Snapper and their bladder? came out of their mouths.  If these fish are released, does the bladder go back in when they swim deeper?

[Larry]

Before Hawaii, I went to Keesler AFB in Biloxi Mississippi for tech school. I was there for a year and mostly fished for flounder and some kind of catfish off the bridge or the back bay. No money as a Airman Basic but somehow I got hooked up with a friend of a friend and made two off shore trips. Fishing there wasn't even close to fishing in Hawaii.

Mom and Dad made an annual trip to Destin Florida and loaded up on red snapper fishing on a party boat. That's what the really old folks do.........maybe I'll try it in a year or two.

[customsawyer]

In watching the video of Robert's new rods and reels, I think that guy would need something for protection in his armpit. If you fished like that with Robert you'd have a rash in about 30 min. Ole Robert can put you on the fish.  

[YellowHammer]

Thanks Jake, sometimes I get lucky and land on some fish. 

I have completely switched to this new generation of fishing tackle.  Most times, the fight gets over pretty quick with these rods, both baitcasting and spinning, because of the super high, super smooth drags.  Both my new generation bait casting and spinning reels now have 40 lbs drag, full spool, and to put that in perspective, imagine lifting and pumping a 40 lb bag of Quickcrete repeatedly, and if a big fish takes half the spool on a run, then the drag goes up to 60 lbs!  So now lift and pump a bag and a half of concrete and that's why my back was hurting and hands were cramping on the boat steering wheel after the days fishing.  Of course, the drags can be turned down, and generally, most times, people prefer a lower setting, especially on strike, about 20 lbs because if a big fish hits while running wide open, and you are not expecting it, 40 lbs of drag will literally skid you across the deck!  That would be like dropping a bag of Quickcrete into your arms and you not expecting it.  For comparison, most bass tackle, at "vise grip" lockup, maxes out at about 10 lbs of drag, and at most 15 lbs.  So these new reels are fitted with "lever" drags, instead of star drags, basically, they are like a brake pedal, pull them back it instantly lessen the drag, push them forward and tighten the drag, and since the new tech drags are like the disk brakes on a truck, with a disk brake rotor set of calipers and pistons, these stay real smooth.

So in order to control this increased drag, the rods have to be re-engineered.  With conventional fishing tackle, especially saltwater, rods are designed to be stiff and heavy, so for example, my old saltwater heavy rod had roller guides, is 6 foot long and little flex.  The reel has a two speed transmission, and maxed out at 30 lbs of drag.  So when thinking about actual load on the angler, 30 lbs of drag at the end of a 6 foot rod puts a torque or moment on the angler of 180 foot-lbs.  That's the force on the angler.  To put that in perspective, that's the equivalent of lifting more than two 80 lbs bags of Quickcrete, with your back, and why fighting belts and such are needed to put the load on an anglers hips.  On the other hand, these new rods are designed with special fibers and materials where a 6 foot rod will progressively bend down to about half its length at nearly a 90 degree angle, and not snap in half, called "High Sticking".  In fact, some of the rods are designed with the rod guides in a spiral down the rod, so there is no twist on the rod blank to further weaken them.  So if a 6 foot rod gets loaded, it will "shorten" itself to 3 feet long, so at max drag of 40 lbs, with a now 3 foot long rod, there is 120 ft-lbs of torque on the angler, which is 34% less "felt" weight on the angler and with the reel dialed up to 40 lbs drag, is 25% more real fighting force applied to the fish! 

The first time I used one of these little bitty rods and reels, my brother was laughing at my "Barbie" tackle and I hooked and fought a 5 lb snapper, fighting with the same force as I was used to with my big tackle.  I was mistaken, told my brother it was a small one, based on the fight, (I didn't realize how much more pressure I was putting on the fish with this new tackle) and as I was pumping the rod, I actually shot the fish out of the water into the air!  A 5 lb snapper went airborne like reeling in a little bream, I had pulled the fish out of the water and didn't even know it.  Holy Cow!!  I then proceeded to dead lift it over the rail onto the deck with no trouble, which is exactly what I normally would not have done with a 5 lb fish.  I just boat flipped it over the gunnel, no problem.  That's when we both knew this stuff was for real, and all our old tackle was suddenly going extinct.  Now I don't even bring the "big tackle" anymore, and don't miss it.  My brother finally got convinced this trip, he still brought his heavy "boat rods" and within a short time, he "borrowed" one of my "bass" outfits, and never gave it up for the rest of the trip.   More power on the fish, higher drags, and more comfortable.

Here is picture of my "old" heavy boat rod, with 60 lb monofilament, compared to my new generation crazy small, "heavy" outfit, with 50 lb Spectra braid (breaking strength, 80 lbs).  Both are top of the line lever drag reels, suited for fish up to tuna sized.  The big reel has 500 yards line mono capacity, the little one has 450 spectra yards on it!  Hard to believe....Which one has the highest drag setting and stronger line? Which one is more fun to fish with? Yes, the little reel has a higher rated drag than the big outfit, almost the same line capacity, 1/3 the weight, puts 25% more pressure on the fish, and 10 times more fun to fish with.  It's hard to believe.  That's also why the guy in the previous video was locking the rod under his armpit, to help control the load, and you can see when the fish would run, he would actually get pulled down to the water, and he isn't a weak looking guy.     

MM, yes that is a very important issue for the health of deep water reef fish species, that is called "barotrauma" from the decompression of being pulled from the deep water, as their swim bladder expands so much if pushes their stomach out of their mouth.  If these fish are released in that condition, they will die, unless they can get back to the depth they came from.  So released snapper were dead snapper.  However, in 2022, the "Descend" act was put into law, and all anglers, commercial and private, are required to have pressure equalization devices on board to release the pressure of the swim bladder and allow the fish to go back to depth.  These devices range from specialized "venting tools" to "descend devices" that are basically weights that are clipped to the fish and they are physically descended back to depth, where they are release and are fine.  It's one thing the Game Wardens really check for.  I know they work, because now it's not unusual to catch a legal sized snapper that has a hook scar from a year before, where it was caught and successfully released.