tree mat question ????

[whitepine]

Looking at tree mats used for small seedlings to stop weed growth. Has anyone used them? They cost about 60 cents when you buy a bunch but I was wondering if one could use that fiber mat they use on construction sites to hold gravel, or how about  laying thin slabs around seedling slopped so water gets to seedling. I am concerned about black mats overheating?? I also would like to avoid metal staples to hold mat down any suggestions besides rocks or dirt clods? I want to try a bunch of hybrid poplar this spring as an experiment  weed growth must be stopped for 3 years, long winter to plan this all.
THANKS
Tom

[SwampDonkey]

Why not sawdust? ;D

[Riles]

Not sawdust, but I had the same idea for my tree farm with arborist's wood chips. Figuring they're just looking for a place to dump 'em, I'd take them for the organic matter. The problem is they immobilize nitrogen. And if you do a prescribed burn, they increase the danger of a hot fire.

On the other hand, they'll certainly keep the weeds down, and that nitrogen isn't gone, it's still there and will mineralize sooner or later. My forest soils professor didn't have a good answer for me, thinking that it would be a good research project. There just isn't enough information as to how much you can put down and where the payoff point is.

[Phorester]

WHITEPINE, we've planted thousands of hardwood seedlings using the mats in thick grass.  No problem with overheating.  In thick grass, I'd not do it any other way.  We also use the metal staples.  Easy, flush with the ground so no tripping or hitting them with a mower.  It's a fairly permanent , no-maintenance installation with the staples.  Putting weights on top instead, like dirt or rock, will have the chance of getting moved off, or having the mat slid out from under a weight put on the corners.  A solid slab of something will allow growing conditions for weeds and grass underneath because it will rarely lay completely flat on the ground.  These tree mats are developed to also allow water infiltration.  If those fiber mats on construction sites do this, they might work.  But if you have to spend time and effort to cut them to size, might be more economical to use the ones designed for tree planting.

Using anything like sawdust or mulch will rot the very thin bark on these tiny seedlings.

I'm convinced that with trees, doing more work in the beginning means doing less work afterward.  Doing it right costs only a few dollars per tree.  That sounds like a lot, especially when we're used to planting pine seedlings for a few pennies each.  But it is well worth it for planting something which will live for over a hundred years if it survives, and the mats installed with staples will help insure that.  A cost-benefit ratio over the liftime of a hardwood tree should come out very well.

[SwampDonkey]

Riles, I don't think we're talking about smothering the whole acreage in sawdust or chips. So, I wouldn't worry about the nitrogen being immobilized to a large extent. And I don't think there's going to be any prescribed burning, most probably arsen if there is a fire. I've used sawdust under my little patch of raspberries and I can't pick them fast enough for 3 weeks straight in July and I haven't added fertilizer on them for 4 years. ;) The most cost effective fertilizer is pre-commercial thinning and increased sunlight, all kinds of wood fibre put on the ground, only it's not concentrated. It's well aerated and rots fast. Trees grow almost twice as fast in diameter. No water contamination with mobile nitrate-N. ;D I'de be more concerned with wildlife browse myself. Up here we have creatures called mice, moles, snowshoe hare, and moose that love to terrorize your poplar stands. Be prepared to step up your homeland security. ;D

[whitepine]

Thanks for the  comments. Swampdonkey is right my biggest problem is browsing animals and so far I have not figured it out tried deer repelent and plant skyyd poor results. Since it is just an experiment and all other  hybrid poplar  plantations have failed up here I will most likely try several different ideas. Read two books  Common sense  Forestry and  Woodlot management and their  suggestion shot deer year round only way  that seems to work. Deer problem is also getting front page coverage in local forestry publications making  reforestration efforts hopeless up here.

[Kevin]

Pine needles seem to work well in preventing growth.

[beenthere]

Pine needles seem to work well in preventing growth.

Do they work as well at preventing growth as the deer? 

[bitternut]

What kind of poplar are you planting that require 3 years of clean ground around them. Any poplar that I ever saw will far outpace any weeds or grass the first growing season. Roundup will keep them clean after the first year. Hope there are no beavers nearby.

[SwampDonkey]

:D :D :D One of the guys at the marketing board took a picture of a newly cleared off field and there was a balm-of-gilead square in the middle of the picture frame that grew 6 feet off a root sucker after it was cleared. I've taken and stuck some 4 foot balm in the mud in the spring and they took off growing as if they always grew there, make sure you get some buds down in the mud. :D

[whitepine]

Hi These are hybrid poplar and I have been warned they have to be treated like corn for the first three years. Aspen and Bam are native here and yes they will handle weeds.

[SwampDonkey]

I truly suspect the weed control is two fold. It  tends to discourage mice from building nests for overwintering and gurdling the stems under the snow cover. I found this to be tue with yellow birch, but if you have deer and hare, there goes that theory. I planted 3500 on the woodlot, where it is 'wild' and the animals wiped them off the face of the earth. I planted a few in the back yard after spraying the grass and weeds and they are doing well. But, I have an 800 lb problem, Mr moose has discovered them and visits sometimes at night for a nibble. ;) :D

[Tom]

To quote an old customer of mine over in the Okeefenokee swamp. "Hang a new hide on the fence every morning and they'll quit that". 

[SwampDonkey]

 :D :D :D :D

Or call the local native band office for the extermination department. ;D

[whitepine]

Another thing is a mown or open area  would be avoided by rodents because they would have no cover from the air  (owls and hawks). Few moose around here but a real deer problem. Moose here tend to winter in cutover aspen stands so I can see your problem. I like the  hanging hide idea but some new neighbors moved out from town I don't think that would go over good. I used to pick up roadkills and feed eagles  and that brought in timber wolves  hmmmmmmmmmmm

[Tom]

You might need to break those new neighbors in early or the rest of your life will be miserable.  :-\

[bushhog]

Hey Phorester -

I am also considering the use of tree mats as I get ready to plant a few hundred seedlings and was wondering if the tree mats are more cost effective than using herbicides.  Tree mats seem like they would be more labor intensive  - maybe not.  How many nails do you have to use per mat for the mats to be effective? 

Also, will the tree mats kill the competing weeds and grass after 3 years or just cause them to go dormant for this period? 

Have you used the tree mats in areas containing exotic invasives?


Any comparitive information you can share would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.