Sawing "Sinkers"

DanG · November 28, 2002, 07:03:55 PM

Come to think of it, I have a question about sinkers, myself. My son-in-law knows a guy that is pulling them out of the Appalachicola. He's gonna ask him about it, to see if we could buy a few from him. It has already been stated that they need to be sawn right away, but what's next? Can they be air dried for a while, or must they go straight into a kiln?

Jeff · November 28, 2002, 07:07:11 PM

25? brrrrrr :

Our lakes are now completely froze over. If it stays like this for a couple more days the stupid ice fishermen will be out. I like to wait till they say its safe for a car, then I will walk out.

Kevin_H. · November 28, 2002, 07:08:12 PM

we are not all asleep.

Tom · November 28, 2002, 07:23:38 PM

Generally air dry under a shelter first. They are full of Water (duh-h) and unlike freshly sawn trees will dry very quickly creating a lot of enternal stress that cause cracking. Don't dry so slow that they create a bed for fungus but don't put fans on them either. Definitely don't let the sun cook them.

The sapwood will probably not be preserved good enough to good boards so don't be surprized if it turns to powder and falls off.

I wouldn't put any of it in a kiln until it had air dried sufficiantly to be stable and then not in a kiln where there was not any experience. It is a special animal.

Jeff · November 28, 2002, 07:24:15 PM

Didja all know that turkey contains Melatinon a natural sedative? Thats why all the Thanksgiving naps!

Tom · November 28, 2002, 07:33:59 PM

We had a preacher once that must have been full of it too. After the sermon, nobody would get up and leave. They were all asleep. :D

Fla._Deadheader · November 28, 2002, 07:37:45 PM

DanG Ron. Look what we started!! Now they's commin outa the woodwork !! :D :D :D :D

Fergot to add; going back to the river tomorrow. Have to unload the logs from the boat and get gas and put the tanks back on board. Move the compressor back down to the landing site and TRY to blow the sunken roots and muck out of the lagoon we use. DanG stuff plugs up the intakes on the motors!!!

DanG, if the guys don't sell to Goodwin, you may get the logs for a buck a foot or so. That was the best offer I got when I went huntin a new buyer last week???

Ron Scott · November 29, 2002, 02:08:38 PM

The sooner one can have the "sinkers" sawn after salvage from the water the better. You will usually loose a foot off the ends of each log due end checking and damage due to their having been beaten around from bumping, water and sand action, etc over their years of drifting and being submerged in their underwater environment.

We use to coat the ends with ethlyne glycole, just plain old antifreeze, to protect them from end checking. New products such as Ancohorseal should now work well for this.

Then air dry the lumber for a time as stated by Tom to let it condition slowly before rapid kiln drying. It needs to adjust slowly for equilibrium with atmospheric conditions after being "water logged" so many years.

Ron Scott · November 29, 2002, 02:49:55 PM

Log Salvage Raft. Used by the Underwater Salvage Company of Ashland, Oregon. Here they are shown salvaging a redwood log from an Oregon lake.

The raft is made of steel and consists of two pontoons. The source of lift is a power winch and the raft is powered by two 40 horsepower Mercury motors. A motor is placed on each pontoon to give maximum turning power.

The raft weighs 3,000 lbs. and has a lifting capacity of 10,000 lbs. It is of the catamaran type. Circa late 1950's.

Don P · November 29, 2002, 03:52:48 PM

I'll be, looks like a pond arch :D

I've heard that teak is girdled and left standing to dry enough so that it doesn't all become sinkers. I think hornbeam is this dense also.

There was a show on PBS up north a few years back on the salvage outfit in Duluth, they also said they sawed fast and dried slow.

I don't think ring count has anything to do with density...here's my step out onto that thin branch. I think higher density wood has to do more with the ratio of earlywood to latewood (dark rings). When you look at earlywood (this springwood flush is put on in about a month) under the microscope the cell walls are thin and the cavity, or lumen, is large...if green it would hold alot of water if dry alot of air. The latewood cells are the summer wood(put on over the rest of the growing season) and are quite thick walled with very little lumen.

In "old growth" there are many small rings, in "second growth" there are fewer thicker rings but the ratio of latewood rings is often greater in this "looser" pattern. I've seen higher specific gravity numbers on 4 rings per inch wood than on twenty ring per inch stuff.

When wood starts developing heartwood then it begins backfilling inactive cells with all manner of byproducts that increase the specific gravity. After heartwood production has been going on awhile the amount of sapwood becomes fairly consistent.

Decay resistance has been attributed to the old growth, but in studies by the Forest Products Labs second growth western redcedar showed the same decay resistance as old growth.

As I read back over this post it sounds kinda like I'm down on the old growth/river recovered stuff and nothing could be farther from the truth, I've just been going down kind of parralell pathways in research lately and this is some of what I've been coming up with.

I see Godwin advertising in several builder, and homeowner remodel type magazines. :P I have yet to see anyone filling the niche of providing period mouldings and panellings in period wood.

Ron Wenrich · November 30, 2002, 05:34:58 AM

Don

You have 2 things going on there that would make the old growth denser. Old growth should better be labled slow growth. We can grow trees the same way, if we really wanted to.

You're right about the density between the early wood vs the late wood. But, in slow growing trees, the early wood isn't as wide as in faster growing trees. That would increase the density.

Also, you have less sapwood. Depending on species, your sapwood may only be a slight ring around the heartwood. Heartwood is more dense and rot resistant. So, it all makes sense.

From what I've seen on the web, the old growth is more stable. That means you can have wider boards that will perform well in furniture and flooring. Nowadays, the commercials won't use anything over 4" wide, and glue the whole thing together.

beenthere · December 13, 2002, 08:15:54 PM

Don and Ron
I think the discussion of earlywood and latewood densities and their effect on wood density as it relates to growth rate needs to be identified as to softwood or hardwood, as well as by species. Fast-grown softwood will likely have lower density wood than slow-grown softwood. However, ring porous oaks that are fast-grown will have higher density wood than will slow-grown oak. Diffuse porous woods like walnut tend not to have much density difference based on growth rate.
You are both right for certain woods.

As for wood that has been "lost" under water, I don't think it is much (if any) different from the wood that can still be found in our forests today. Not saying either that, in general, the forests of today are anything like the forests of a few years (100?) ago.