Tell me about being a Forester

[Blue Duck]

I couldn't think of any better place to post this question.  If their is one please move it there. 

I am curiously interested in making a career change to forestry and thought with the level of educated foresters on this site I would start here.  I realize this question may be as broad as asking "tell me about being a construction worker" but professionally I'm not sure what all foresters do.  I understand there are jobs in both the public and private sector but I have no idea what they pay.

I doubt it is a practical career path at this point in my life but I still want to find out about it.  Here's a breif description of my background.  I'm 30 years old, married with 2 small children (20 months and 3 months).  I have a BS degree in Animal Science with a minor in Natural Science from Oklahoma Panhandle State University (1998 graduate) but do to a plummetting fat cattle market I moved back home to North Carolina and went into the construction industry upon graduation while looking for another job.  I went from a carpenter to running a framing crew for high end houses fairly quickly and was offered a building inspectors job by the county 5 years ago.  Currently I'm a Level 2 Building Inspector and Level 1 Electrical, Plumbing, and Mechanical inspector.  Over the last 7 or 8 years I've cut and sold some wood and finally got a little more serious about it last year when I started Ghost River Timber Company on Jan 1.  I make decent money working as a building code enforcement officer but it's really an unfulfilling job when you get down to it.  I really do enjoy the work of logging but right now it isn't practical to leave the county for a try at supporting the family logging.  I'm a life long outdoorsman and the idea of working as a forester is pretty intriguing to me.  Clemson University offers a Forestry program and they are about an hour and a half from here so it is a possibility but practically it may be a long shot at this point in my life. 

But tell me, what is the job like, what can a Forester expect to make, and how much education do I probably lack (I know you don't havea copy of my transcript but it's primarily biologys and various livestock geared classes).  Thaks for the help and I plan to track down the local State Forester maybe latter in the week to ask  him some of the same questions.
 

[Texas Ranger]

I have been a practicing forester for 45 years, I have a Masters, but not in forestry.  I can tell you that looking at the profession for that 45 years that foresters with no experience start at the same level as a school teach with no experience.  If you go with the feds, the only way to move up, is to move over, relocate.  If you should find a job with a state, you may stay in one place, but money and promotions are fairly well tied to most of the state teacher associations.  Private consulting, you need experience to compete, and the only way to get that is with employment by some one, at low wages.  It is not a start up job for a 30 year old, unless, unless, you can get by while you get the necessary experience. 

Push your timber company, at night and weekends if you have to.  Do good work for a reasonable fee, set up your own market by networking with builders, crafters, etc.  Particularly if your lucky enough to be where you can get some of the special woods, or high value single trees.

Foresters are pretty uniformly good folks, bet few get more than a wage, without doing something else.  Most work for the retirement and retire as soon as they have a pension.

[Ron Wenrich]

The first thing you'll need is the degree - a BS in Forest Science from an accredited college.  I believe Clemson fits that bill.  Since you already have a BS degree, you should be able to get away from all those undergrad prerequisite courses.  You might be able to opt out of some courses just due to your experience at logging and milling.  If you can ID trees, you might be able to test out of dendro.  You could get a degree in 1-2 years, depending on the university.

The public and private sector does hire foresters.  At the public side, you have state and federal forestry programs.  You might find something at the local level, but they are more urban foresters.  I'm not knocking urban forestry, its a good job. 

I've worked mainly in the private sector.  I've worked as a utility forester, procurement forester and a consulting forester. 

Utility foresters are the guys responsible for utility right-of-ways and their maintenance.  Its a lot of public contact where you're knocking on doors explaining to people why your going to cut down their trees that they planted under the electric line.  I've met several of these guys while doing work for the utility companies.  They seemed to really enjoy doing the work and had some pretty cool aspects to their jobs.  Some cruised lines in helicopters, some had bears chase them, and some had bald eagle nests to maintain.  Right-of-ways can be in some really rugged territory.  Starts out probably in the low 30s, depending on where you're at.  Work your way to the top and 6 figures.

Procurement forestry can be a challenging position.  Again, there is a lot of landowner contact.  Normally, you have to purchase timber for your mill or logging crew.  That means you must be able to identify value on the stump.  Good procurement foresters write up management plans, make recommendations on how to harvest the timber, and decide how much they can pay for the timber.  They also get necessary permits and supervise the logging and post-logging phases of the job.  You should also know what the insides of a log looks like.  If you pay too much for timber, you won't last.  Probably starts out in the upper 20s to low 30s.  A lot depends on the type of mill you work for. 

Procurement can also amount to buying logs for veneer or sawmills.  I did one job where I bought sawdust and wood chips for a steam co-gen plant.  Not nearly the landowner contact, but that can be a good thing.

Consultants do about the same thing as procurement foresters.  The only difference is that they normally bid out the timber instead of offering a price for it.  If you're working for someone else, then the salary is about what a procurement forester makes.  If you're working for yourself, its a lot less.   :D

The nice days are when you're out there examining a piece of land.  I do a pretty good job of cruising before I ever think of putting paint on the trees.  I map the property and divide it up into different forest types.  Then, crunch the numbers and make the recommendations.  I did that both as a consultant and a procurement forester.  My end results were much better than going out and trying to see how much wood I could move.

The bad days are when you're between jobs.  That means you have to go out and scare up some work.  When the economy slows down, so does your work.

If it sounds like something you would like to do, then go for it.  The worst that could happen is that you have another degree.  My dad always said to get an education because no one can take that away from you.   ;)

[SwampDonkey]

I think I'd stick with the inspection job.  ;D :D :D :D

And that's the short and sweet of it. ;)

[Riles]

OK, I'll trade stories with ya.

45 years old, three kids (8, 4, 21 months). BS in electrical engineering from Clemson, MS in management from Troy State. Retired after 20 years in the Air Force as a navigator. The wife's still active duty so when we moved to Louisiana I took my GI Bill to Louisiana Tech where I'll graduate this spring with a BS in Forestry. The commute one way to class is an hour (63 miles) door to door. Will have taken me 2 years to do the whole program because I transferred in most of the general education requirements.

My motivation? I'm a naturally curious person. The trigger? I didn't want to cut all that grass on my retirement farm, so I had the state plant trees. In researching it all, I found the Forestry Forum.

Time and time again, questions would come up in class that I already knew the answer to because I read about it here first. Plus I have a lifetime's experience to fall back on. I find the classes fascinating, challenging, yet amazingly easy. I was a 2.0 engineering student, I'm a 3.9 forestry student. I think everyone should go to college in their middle age. You'd be amazed how smart you really are.

What am I going to do with a Forestry degree? Don't know yet. If I never spend a day as a professional forester, it was still entirely worth it. I've thought about being a consulting forester, but I have no practical experience and the field is already heavily populated. We'll see.

[Ron Scott]

So You Want To Be A Forester?

http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/caer/ce/eek/teacher/pdf/25-Want_to_be_Forester.pdf

You may want to obtain the publication from your local library or the Society of American Foresters.

Clemson is a good Forestry School from what I know of it. I took some continuing education forestry classes there some timwe ago compliments of the U.S. Forest Service.

[Blue Duck]

I was doing a  little internet surfing and found this program.  I believe they even offer some online courses.  It's an Associates degree program though but it's still a possibility.

http://www.haywood.edu/NatRes/Forestry.pdf

[Texas Ranger]

Riles, did you, or do you have, an instructor named Finis Prendergast?

[Riles]

Nope, but it sounds like an interesting story.  :D

[Ron Wenrich]

If you're going to spend the time getting a degree, go for the BS.  It will open more doorways than an AS degree and only take a little more time.

[Blue Duck]

Thanks for the input.  I talked to the local forester yesterday about the job he does at the local level.  It sounded interesting enough.  There is an assistant job open that requires an associates degree but the hiring range as $25-30. and I don't think I could come to work for that.  I'm still exploring my options but I will probably just have to study forestry in an informal setting and keep building my logging business till (hopefully) I can't afford to stay with the county anymore.   

[WDH]

Good going, Riles!!

[Ron Scott]

Ditto! on going for the BS degree as a minimum. It shouldn'r take you that much longer with your present accomplishments.

[WDH]

I agree with Ron and Ron ;D.  If you puruse a degree, get a BS.  You will have more potential job opportunities.

Let me tell you, Forestry is rough right now because of the economic conditions.  However, we need new leaders to carry on the tradition.  Your timing might be pretty good, because after you get your degree in a couple of years, things hopefully will be turning around. 

[SwampDonkey]

Sure is a lot of BS in here.  : ;D :D :D :D :D



That's Bachelor of Science. ;)

[Phorester]

There's an entry level forester position with my State Agency right now.  Starting salary is $30,000.  State salaries are generally considered to be on the low end.

I think your age is an asset.  You have maturity and life experiences that a recent 24 year old college grad doesn't have.  All things being equal, I'd rather hire you.

[Blue Duck]

I think your age is an asset.  You have maturity and life experiences that a recent 24 year old college grad doesn't have.  All things being equal, I'd rather hire you.

Well thanks Phorester  I appreciate the kind words.

[Brian Beauchamp]

Knowing the current curriculum requirements of forestry and how they build upon one another, and even with your current degree already earned, it would probably be at least 3 years before you got your degree in forestry...which would make you 33-34 years old by the time you got your new degree.

You may look into the possibility of a masters program, such as agroforestry, that includes forestry and builds upon your degree you already have. I would think it would take the same amount of time or less to obtain. One masters degree is better than 2 bachelors, in my opinion. Something to think about anyway.

I started my consulting business straight out of college at 29. A year and a half later at 31, I have more work than I can handle on my own. I have 2 employees/contractors and working on a 3rd and possibly a 4th. I am single (maybe not for too long though) with no kids, so I have a lot of freedom to do what I need to do. The work is there in the private sector if you should decide to consult, but you have to look around for it and be prepared to win a landowner's confidence when the opportunity presents itself...things kind of 'snowball' after that.

With 2 little mouths to feed though, the Forest Service may be the way to go for a good-paying job right out of school with benefits, but you will find that you are wrangling more red tape than helping the environment and actually doing a lot of hands-on work. Getting on with an established consulting firm that can provide benefits may also be a good option for you as well...as Phorester said, I would rather have someone with a little more maturity and life experience when given the choice, so you definitely have a leg up there in my opinion as well.

[Riles]

You'll probably find the school administration a little more receptive to "exceptions" for the non-traditional student. If I had to take all the prerequisite courses in the proper order, you are correct, it can't be done in two years. But once my face (and background) was known, all sorts of stuff was waived. I ended up taking one three-course sequence all at once. That doesn't necessarily work for the general education requirements outside of the forestry curriculum. I ended up taking a wrong chemistry class and when they caught it, I had to take TWO more just to keep the university happy. Ironically, it was a prerequisite for a class I already got an "A" in. I guess it's a postrequisite now.

I considered a masters or even a PhD in forestry since I already had a master's in management. Not really an option since the graduate degrees are offered at LSU in Louisiana, though. And as I thought about it, yup, with no background in forestry I'd be taking all the same classes just to catch up.

It certainly pays to think things through and to have a plan, but the bottom line is to do something you're going to enjoy. I enjoy sitting in a classroom as much as walking in my woods (most of the time).

[SwampDonkey]

As I recall the 5 year Forestry degree program required a prerequisite of college preparatory in high school with two or three years of physics, chemistry (advanced level 3 an asset), math (advanced level 3 an asset), english  and biology. Also, some courses have to be taken in sequence in the degree program, so there is no way to complete it under 3. Summer session does not include forestry courses, or it could be done sooner.

[Brian Beauchamp]

Summer session does not include forestry courses, or it could be done sooner.

...and a lot of schools have a summer curriculum that is required...often referred to as 'Summer Camp', so make sure you as about all the requirements before you get committed to any particular one.

[SwampDonkey]

Or fall camp, sometimes there are two sessions of this. One in first and one in 3rd year.

[ppine]

Blue Duck,
It is not so easy to make a career change an an adult.  The USFS in the West at least is hiring foresters and timber cruisers for the first time a long time.  Rather than struggling along and trying to get a BS degree I would consider a shorter route and consider becoming a timber cruiser.  Since you have an education already, you could find a technical school that can teach you forest mensuration and how to calculate stand volume in about a year, or a year and a half. 

You have to be able to spend time in the field in all weather.  You may have to move to a fairly remote location.  But you will be doing real dirt forestry.  That will help you figure out if it is the kind of life you want to have and whether you really want to become a degreed forester or not. 

[BrandonTN]

Ditto on getting a BS in forestry, esp since you already have a BS for the core curic classes. Just make sure the uni is SAF accredited, Clemson is.

Im a forester/silviculturist on the Nantahala NF, probably not far from you. NC state Forest Service and the fed Forest Service (Pisgah, Nan, Uwharrie, Croatan) are great employers for foresters in NC. The feds just did a mass hiring event this year for foresters and techs. Get that BS and youll get a forester job if youre willing to move, perhaps wont have to move too far. The fed FS also has also has a program (Pathways) where they hire students on permanent while they are students. There is also the FS' Recent Grads program that gives those hiring preference within 2 yrs of graduating.

If you love working in the woods and problem solving, youll love forestry. Private and govt work is very diff tho, lots of bureaucratic stuff with feds, but theres lots of positives too that make it worth it. Managing a large, rule-laden, steep, land base on NF's is challenging and a slower process than on private, but there's more funding for TSI and opportunity to see results of all of your work on the ground if you hang around in a position. Im from TN originally, went to UT knoxville for school, worked for feds in MT, CA, CO, and OR, and finally made it back to the home region 2 yrs ago. Glad to be practicing montane oak silviculture for the long haul....so much to learn around here.

30 yrs is young, i didnt get my forestry BS til i was 29 and didnt get on on permanent with FS til i was 33.