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Resource for Truss Education?

Started by Woodbender, February 21, 2007, 09:08:40 AM

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Woodbender

Ok

I am finding that my resources at hand are inadequate for what I want to do. All my truss design stuff here at work is for Fink trusses and prebuilt commercial 2X trusswork. I have some manuals of "Simplified Engineering for Architects and Builders" but guess what? Nothing on the large framing timbers (trusses etc.) that this forum deals with.

I'm looking for (downloadable?) information on types of trusses, King Post, Queen Posts, Hammer Beam, best locations for collar ties for those trusses. Optimum roof pitches.

Types of Bents. Etc.  24' Bents ok? 28' Bent marginal? 30' Bent insane?  All this stuff I don't have a grip on.

Pointing me to a website would be great.  Pointing me to a library book would also be great. I've been up to the Timber Framers Guild site and the Timber Framers Business Council and found some stuff there.

But I need the basic entry level stuff.
Tim Eastman (Woodbender)
Be an example worth following.

Jim_Rogers

If you go to the guild site, and look in their online store under publications you'll see several books.
One is know as the "red" book as it has a red cover. This book is a collection of articles about timber framing design. Then there is the green book, same reason. This book is again a collection of articles since the red book was published. Also there is one book on 'historic' trusses. These maybe what you're looking for if not there are other books there.
I don't know of any sites where you can download timber truss information, that I can remember at this time.

Good luck with your research.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Stumpkin

The TF Guild has a couple of good books that I would recommend. The Joinery and Design books, vol. 1 & 2. and also  "Historic American Roof Trusses". Tom :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
"Do we know what we're doing and why?"
"No"
"Do we care?"
"We'll work it all out as we go along. Let our practice form our doctrine, thus assuring precise theoretical coherence."      Ed Abbey

Don P

Start by reading section 1.7 "Algebraic Analysis of Planar Trusses" in Simplified Engineering. That will do the math for any common truss. From there I've been using Mcgraw Hill's "Wood Engineering and Construction" Faherty/Williamson, that's a good one to have but I need to jump back to Simplified Engineering often to find the basics behind what they get into.

After I can quantify the loads and get them to check around each joint I've then gone to the NDS and designed the members and then the connections. The member sizes might need to be bumped up for proper connection sizes. This is where I'm at now, so I'm only 2 pages ahead  :).

There's a couple of good online reads I'll find and put up.
http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/tech/truss.htm
http://www.polymorf.net/trussstatic.htm

Woodbender

Looks like what I need - thanks guys.
Tim Eastman (Woodbender)
Be an example worth following.

Don P

This is a good looking simple truss program for quickly getting a rough idea of the loads on a truss.
It starts with an explanation page and then has a link to the page with the program on it.
http://www.jhu.edu/~virtlab/bridge/truss.htm

This does the first part, quantifying the forces. Next would be strength of materials, designing to safely withstand those forces.

In a truss the members are treated as columns rather than beams. The truss is pushing the timbers axially, along their length, trying to buckle them. Some members have an axial and a bending load, the top chord.

Then making sure the connections are strong enough. Typically in a truss if you can make the heeljoint work you've done the worst.

Woodbender

Tim Eastman (Woodbender)
Be an example worth following.

Griffon

Can anyone reccomend the book 'Simplified design of structural wood' by Parker & Ambrose ?

Lee

Jim_Rogers

I just got the fourth edition and the fifth edition for Christmas and I haven't had a chance to read either one of them, yet.
But they are suppose to be good, that's why I have them on my reading list.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Griffon

Thanks Jim, I'm thinking of purchasing this OR Don's choice, 'Simplified Engineering for Architects and Builders', so would be interested to hear a scanned comparison. The two books share authors and publisher and are part of the 'Simplified Engineering series which contains many others. The book I name is solely wood, but 3x the cost of the other ...

Don, Have you found the sections on other materials useful (steel, concrete etc) ?

Woodbender

Guys I have the  "Simplified Engineering for Architects and Builders" but it doesn't sound like the one you guys have.  I have the Fifth Edition by Harry Parker.

Are there other authors and/or versions that are dealing more specifically with our Timber Framing?

Thanks again.
Tim Eastman (Woodbender)
Be an example worth following.

Don P

The simplified engineering for architects and builders does lay the groundwork for truss analysis. Those basics are in a number of texts. To answer your question Griffon, I did find the steel section useful, and have recently gone on to get the AISC steel construction manual.

I've seen prints of pages from The Architects and Builders Handbook from the turn of the century, it might be worth a look. This was the early period of unit stress design so is some of the earlier "rational" design. I've been trying to read it online, Google has it but it is poorly scanned and is about unreadable. There is a good scan as far as I can tell at this address;
Architects and Builders Handbook
Its a 226mb file and is locking me up on that site, something about a 32 hr download :-\
The truss info begins on page 1138 or so depending on edition.
I've also seen the book online for ~$100
Probably ought to double check all design values against our allowable values.
I think copyright is out on that book if we want to post pics or whatever from it.

Woodbender

Tim Eastman (Woodbender)
Be an example worth following.

Raphael

Quote from: Don P on March 04, 2007, 01:42:38 AM
There is a good scan as far as I can tell at this address;
Architects and Builders Handbook
Its a 226mb file and is locking me up on that site, something about a 32 hr download :-\
The truss info begins on page 1138 or so depending on edition.

  Something wierd going on with downloads from that website I just grabbed the 3.4meg text version and couldn't respond to this thread while my browser was downloading it.  Will there be a lot of information I'm missing in the form of diagrams?
  There's also their ftp site, a decent ftp client might drop your download time to something around 23 hours, avoid the lockup problem and allow you to pause/resume.  I got several of my Win98se betas that way, it's a real grind but was faster than waiting for the snailmail to deliver a CD.

  There's something I'm not remembering.  I think I've run across their other available format before, the DJVu file.  Is that Desk Jet viewer?  Possibly an EPS or modified EPS file?
  OOPS... must be getting senile it's DjVu not DJVu,  Still seems familiar.  ???
I found it: DjVu (pronounced "déjà vu")... no wonder it seems so familiar.  :D :D :D
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Raphael

18hrs. for the .pdf via ftp (with a 50k dialup).
There appears to be an indexing error (reading with Acrobat 5.0) somewhere between page 668e and 880 but the truss information is intact.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Don P

Wow, I bet that was fun  :D
Is the chapter worth finding a way to post somehow? I do have space on my FF page.

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: Woodbender on March 03, 2007, 12:15:42 PM
Guys I have the  "Simplified Engineering for Architects and Builders" but it doesn't sound like the one you guys have.  I have the Fifth Edition by Harry Parker.

Are there other authors and/or versions that are dealing more specifically with our Timber Framing?

Thanks again.

Woodbender, you're getting confused with two different books. We're talking about Simplified "DESIGN" of Structural Wood" not Simplified Engineering for Architects and Builders.

I think that's what's going on....

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Raphael

Quote from: Don P on March 05, 2007, 11:50:28 AM
Wow, I bet that was fun  :D
Is the chapter worth finding a way to post somehow? I do have space on my FF page.

  I was at work for the first ten hours and asleep when the DL finished so no strain on my part. ;)
There are a several chapters containing information that can be applied to timber framing but the focus is largely on timber and iron composite and all steel trusses.  There's a whole lot of information here to work through, I'll have to look into exporting the appropriate sections.
 If you're interested in a copy I can burn it to CD and snailmail it to you.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Don P

Actually I was talking about "Simplified Engineering for Architects and Builders".
The chapter I referred to contains the math for determining the forces in a truss. It gives no specific guidance directly related to timberframes. Its just the math involved in determining how the loads move through the truss.

That's where we're kind of stuck right now. I'm hoping to find some good postable details that can be used as examples. Some of the old drawings I've seen have the engineering on them so they could be "reverse engineered" somewhat, I hope. If you see some old dimensioned and calculated plans online or a text delving into this, shout  :)

Raphael, I sure would like a copy. What I could see of it looked worth reading, I'll PM you, Thanks  :)


Raphael

Quote from: Don P on March 09, 2007, 10:43:59 PM
Raphael's cd came today  8)
Cool deal... Did you happen to look at the "spare time pictures"?

Quote
This is a pic I liked from later in the chapter;
https://forestryforum.com/members/donp/truss16.JPG
I kept going back to that one as well.  It's a gorgeous looking piece of work, I'd love to see the original.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Don P

Thanks for sending that Raphael, one of the best books I've never bought  ;D
I've looked at some of the spare time pics, that is some nice work.

I've been through the Mill Construction chapter as well and a little deeper in the truss engineering section. Lotta good stuff in there. In one section he talks about lifting 98' trusses on an 8x8 gin pole 50' to the top of the columns  :o.

Don P

Well, I'll run out of room long before I get much up doing it the way I know how. I think there's alot of useful reference info in the book though. For those on a connection like mine, I've made a few copies of the cd and would be happy to mail it to anyone interested. One thing I've noticed about older technical texts, they wrote more understandably alot of times. If you want a copy PM me your particulars  :)

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