Tree marking for dummies

[GW]

Yes, I know that dummies shouldn't be allowed to mark trees, but.............

It's falling on me to mark the trees that will be clear cut in our 6 acre pond site. As it's being cleared the pond contractor will advise me if I've left any trees that should be cut. So far it's been suggested that I mark the trees on the perimeter of the clear cut area with orange paint and tape, and mark the trees to be left with blue paint and tape, two trees deep. Here are my questions:

Can I use latex paint for the trees to be left standing? Cindy would like to avoid marks that last more than a year at the most.

(Krylon has a line of latex paint in an aerosol can. It would be expensive to use, but it seems like a convenient way to mark with latex.)

If I paint a complete ring around the trees head high do I still need to tape them? I've got about 1/2 mile of perimeter to mark, 3 trees deep (at least 1 for cut trees and 2 deep for trees to be left).

I've read about marking the bottoms of the trees below the cut line so a record remains after the trees are removed. Do you recommend do that?

Thanks.

[Jeff]

You should be able to mark the "leave" trees with just dots of a unique color on at least two sides, on the tree and below the cut line. You mark below the cut line only on the trees to be left so you know if one of your "leave" trees was cut.   I would suggest that if the work is to be done soon after the marking, just buy the cheapest paint you can. It makes no difference what you spray on the clearcut trees.

[Jeff]

Another note, you don't need to completely ring the trees with paint. Using blue for leave trees, its very visible, not a color blind color so that cant be an excuse for not seeing it. Dots the size of golf balls are easily seen and should be sufficient.  Mark corners with rings if you like.

[Ron Wenrich]

I can understand not wanting the leave trees marked with paint.  What I would do is mark the leave tree butts with paint.  It will stay for a really long time, and it gives you a control.  I would mark the leave trees with ribbon.  Right before harvest I would consider marking the leave trees with a chalk mark.

This can be done by loading an old sock with chalk and smacking the tree to leave.  It works in dry weather, not so good when its wet.  They even have spray chalk that lasts after a couple of rains.  Probably about the same price as latex paint.

[fuzzybear]

   When I do a slashing job such as yours I always ask that the trees to be removed be ringed with a florecent paint or tied with PINK flagging. I prefer the flagging myself. It is about $1.50 per 50ft roll.  When the job is finished the only trees cut are the ones with flagging.  The trees left standing have no marks or paint.
   If the contractor insist on marking every tree I would use pink for those to be removed and blue or purple flagging for those that will remain. This way when the job is complete all you have to do is remove the flagging.
   I use pink because it is easy to see and up here the miners and trappers use orange by the case.
   Good luck on the marking!!!   Also, one more thing, those trees that you want to try and save for the mill or other such things, I have the customer put up at least three flags  on that tree so I know to try and drop it in a good spot for picking it up.

[Tillaway]

How your contractor wants it is allot of work.  A simple flag line should work, butt mark the flagged trees with paint.  Another way is to paint spot, chalk, whatever(paint butt marks)  the boundary trees on one side facing into the clear cut area.  The boundary can only be seen when you are in the harvest area.  They can cut up to the boundary but not cut any boundary trees.  Charge them double or triple stumpage for any boundary trees cut without you consent prior to harvest.  Put it all in writing.

[GW]

It' my choice to complicate the process. The pond builder marked the shoreline, but I'm the one that wants to mark every tree. I'm like that. He would have marked a line 50 - 75 feet from the water line and cut every to that point, but I don't want the full density of woods to stop in a clear line at the pond. I want to select certain trees to be left near the bank and then let the woods gradually get thicker as you go out from there.

Now that we're working with foresters maybe I can relax a little about the controls, but that's not my nature. Still, it will be nice having a professional managing the process.

[Phorester]

Something else to think about.... exactly who will be cutting the trees with the saw?  Will it be the logger you are actually talking to, or somebody that works for him that he will be giving instructions to?  Sometimes communication gets misunderstood between the landowner, the logger, the guy with the saw, the guy running the skidder.  Simple instructions work the best.

It makes for simpler instructions to say, "cut every tree that has a paint mark, don't damage any big tree that is not marked".  So you would mark the trees to be cut, not the trees to be left.   
This would also work with the human tendency to key in on things that are "not suppossed to be there", and want to remove that.  Paint or flagging is not natural on a tree. So the basic human reaction is to want to remove trees with those things on it.

But another point, how do these guys normally operate?  Are they used to cutting  marked trees, or leaving marked trees?  Marking your woods by the normal way they work will lead to less mistakes by them.   

[GW]

Phorester, at this time we don't know who will be doing the cutting. In fact we're just now interviewing foresters as advised by the members here. The original logger we were talking to may be involved or may not. I think we'll be looking for as much help from consultants as possible and we won't deal with loggers directly. I will be on the job site every day though to observe the operation. I won't be a pest, but folks will know that an owner is around.

I do understand the logic behind marking only the trees to be removed. What do you think about me marking the cut trees head high with orange paint, and marking the leave trees at stump level with blue? It seems to me that marking the bases of the leave trees makes it clear that you're serious about what gets taken and what doesn't. It would also let me see from a safe distance if the loggers are cutting too much.

[WDH]

I would only mark the take trees like Phorester said.  Normally, when timber is marked, it is the take trees that are marked.  I say keep it simple.  Loggers are used to cutting marked trees.  You could spray a slash on the butt at ground line of every take tree so that it is evident even after the tree has been cut and skidded out that the tree was a marked one.

[GW]

This is a good forum. It's great that you all are willing to help someone to this degree who has no experience with woodlands. It's a little scary how difficult it is these days to find contractors and workers that you can communicate with and/or trust. It's not just loggers either, it's everybody.

It's very hard for me to give up marking the leave trees around the shoreline because they will be the best trees and the most obvious as you view the pond. I do think it's the simplest method though, so I'm going to give it some consideration. If I had a big enough family I'd just strap a relative to each leave tree.

[Ed_K]

"It would also let me see from a safe distance if the loggers are cutting too much."

As a logger this sentence makes me feel a lot better. There's nothing that makes me madder than to be working and all of a sudden find the land owner standing there next to me. Also, wearing bright colored clothing,a florescent vest too helps.
I'd ask to only have the take trees marked. Maybe use some red and white tape to mark where the skidder operator can enter and leave the pond site. This will minimize the damage to the leave trees.
Ed

[Phorester]

GW, a reputable logger will not do what he is not supposed to do. They can be trusted to do no undue damage to the trees to be left for the future. You get a reputable logger by following the advice in this forum.  Keep in mind, too, that any logging operation looks horrendous during and immediately after completion.  It's impossible to cut down trees in a forest without making a mess.  This is not saying that they will damage every tree they don't cut. I don't mean that.  But some mashing down and breaking of little trees and shrubs, some ground rutting, is unavoidable.  But it will look better in future years as nature softens the disturbance with new growth and reclaims the bare areas.

Just like the ponds you are building.  They will make a big mess while building them, and even after filling, the bare shoreline will look like a big scar until the grass grows and vegetation creeps in from the surrounding woods over the years.

ED, good points.

[GW]

Thanks Ed_K. I'm a very safety conscious person, and I know better than to distract people needlessly when they're trying to work.

Access to clear cut area should be pretty simple. It's a short path through the woods to where the dam will be, and this path will end up being the road used to access the pond. The dam itself needs a cleared area of more than 800 X 100 feet. From the dam area they can work toward the center of the pond site and out to the edges.

Thanks Phorester, I think I'll feel better as I learn more. Finding a Forester that we trust will make a huge difference, and that seems to be coming together.

[Ron Scott]

Yes as stated by others, "keep it simple". There is only need to mark the trees to be cut at breast height and on the stump and that is how loggers are most used to working. Have a well written contract that spells out what is wanted and how the logger is to perform. Select an experienced and recommended logger for the job and you should get you objectives met in a satisfactory manner.

Realize that harvesting trees and the pond contruction will change the landscape through a period of some distubance that you need to adjust to during the implementation period.

Work in partnership with the logger, but be sure that they know you are there at all times and follow safety procedures. The "first week" will be the hardest as you adjust to the disturbance level and results. 

[rebocardo]

I pretty much agree with everyone    though I would do it like Jeff's posts.

re:ringing with paint

This can take a long time, especially walking around vines and brush, requires a lot of bending, and will use a lot of paint. Plus, you can turn yourself around in the wrong direction.

Dots are much better, though it would not hurt on ring trees. Basically spray the front then walking past spray the back without really stopping, swing your arm to the front again for the next tree.

[GW]

I don't care about the time investment in marking the shoreline. I'll do what I have to in order to build the best looking pond possible. I bought some supplies when my intention was to mark the the leave trees. I got some latex primer, had it tinted light blue, then mixed it 1 to 1 with water. I put that in a pump sprayer and tested in on a tree. It only took a few seconds to mark the tree and I didn't have to stoop over. The mark is unmissable (in theory). It wouldn't be a problem to do a few dots.

It's good to get different opinions. I'll start by marking the cut trees and see how I feel about it after. 

[rebocardo]

> I put that in a pump sprayer and tested in on a tree.

That is a good idea, especially if you are using a wand 

[GW]

Oops. Tested IT on a tree, with a wand.