Kevin, I need your advice

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The Forestry Forum CRASH OF 2007 ARCHIVES
General Forestry => Forestry and Logging => Topic started by: OneWithWood on September 30, 2007, 03:58:34 PM


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Title: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: OneWithWood on September 30, 2007, 03:58:34 PM
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I need to fall a leaning red maple.  Is about 20" DBH and is leaning down slope at close to a 60° angle.  There is a crack that traverses from the ground up in the middle of the trunk to about 5'.  The crack is all the way through.  I started my open face angle cut and the chain became pinched quickly.  I stopped there.
My concern is that there is some much stress that it will barberchair for sure.

The last time I cut a leaner I got one saw stuck and had to remove the motor and proceed with a second saw.  That tree barberchaired when the holding root popped out.

With this one I am thinking the wood behind the crack is what is holding the tree now and everything in front of the crack is in compression big time.

How should I proceed?  I want to get this tree down. 

[Imasap]

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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: beenthere on September 30, 2007, 05:09:15 PM
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OWW
Pics would help..  

but a question...do you want it to fall with the lean? Is the crack parallel with the face cut, and the intended hinge?   If so, can you plunge cut in 'behind' the crack, and saw out to the tension side, staying away from the hinge side in compression?

Other ideas come to mind, like making a smaller notch above or below the existing one that pinched, but that just adds confusion. Be safe...


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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: Gary C on September 30, 2007, 05:34:38 PM
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That sounds like an extremely dangerous tree. That's like two trees tied together at the top and bent over like a spring pole.

I do not believe I would touch that tree with a chainsaw. What I would probably do is take a backhoe and first dig on the side of the lean, then the sides. Finally, if it has not tipped over, I would dig across the back and  then push it over if it does not fall by itself.

Even if I had the harvester there, I would probably reach up as high as I could above the split and cut it there.

No way would I cut on the lower portion of that tree.


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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: Kevin on September 30, 2007, 07:59:05 PM
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One With Lean;
Those make the job interesting ;D.

The best thing with the equipment I have without actually seeing what you have is to get a rope in the top of it and winch some of the weight off of the lean so you can safely work it.
Use a shallow face (a true open face not a birds mouth) bore, nick the back strap low and go back and release the rope from a safe distance.
If it doesn't go over just go back and tickle the back strap until it fails.



For extra insurance you can cinch the tree tight with a strap or chain above your cut.

Did you get that new throwbag?

If you plan on trying this with the rope, let me know and I can explain how to set it up.

Without the rope cinch the tree, shallow face, bore and trip the strap but the other way is safer.
Watch the roots don't pull out of the ground if you are near it and not using the rope.

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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: OneWithWood on October 01, 2007, 10:33:48 AM
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Beenthere, I thought about taking some pics but I was too pooped to walk back out there.  Only had a brief amount of time to post.

Gary, this is one of those times I wish I had a hoe or a mini excavator.

Yes, this is a dangerous tree.  I am getting smarter so I stopped to consult with the experts before continuing.

Kevin, thanks for the drawing.  That is essentially the situation, just add a crack in the pith running up about five feet.  I did get the throw rope and a strong climbing rope.  I could not afford a real bull rope.  I was thinking I could us the throw rope to haul up a snatch block with the 600lb test climbing rope.  I would thread my winch line from the crawler through it, use the trow rope to pull a choker up into the leaner and do essentially what you have diagramed.  I have 135' of cable so I need to make sure I can secure it to a tree close enough.
I do have a good load securing 6" ratchet strap that I will use to bind the the tree above the cut.
I have had roots pull before in this situation so I will definately be using the rope/cable combo.

I will take some pics of the set up and hopefully of the result.  It is raining today  8) so it may be a day or so.

There are a number of trees like this scattered throughout the property so this will be a good learning experience.  I learned on the last on not to do this without advice and restraints.

[Imasap]

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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: Kevin on October 01, 2007, 10:51:04 AM
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You're quite right, these are some of the most dangerous situations to deal with.
Cinching it will prevent split out.
The rope doesn't have to be high on the redirect but higher is better.
You can thread your bull rope through the block then hoist the block over a good limb close to the stem or just secure it up as high as you can reach.
It will take very little pressure to get the weight off of the leaner so that won't be a concern.
I use an adjustable hitch to pull with on the bull line but you can tie an alpine butterfly or similar loop mid line to pull on.
Get it tensionioned then lock the tail off on some type of rope brake and remove the winch so you can later release the line well back away from the danger to allow the tree to fall without interference.

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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: OneWithWood on October 01, 2007, 11:44:21 AM
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If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting I use only the rope tied to the leaner threaded through the block tied to the redirect tree.  Tie a loop in the bull line and use the winch to take the strain off the leaner then lock the rope.  Remove the winch cable.  When finished cutting release the lock and stand back.

That definately results in less weight flown. 

[Imasap]

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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: Kevin on October 01, 2007, 05:54:31 PM
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Roger that.
Depending on the knot you  use you can add a dowl to the knot in order to get the knot out a little easier later.
Just make sure the knot won't try and get through the block when the tree falls.
That's where an adjustable hitch can be removed and not cause you any grief.

Here's a couple more to think about without the rope for a heavy head leaner.



B is referred to as the Coos Bay, no specific direction to the fall but on a heavy head leaner it doesn't usually matter.

You don't hesitate in the felling cut, wide open full throttle and don't let up until the tree leaves the stump.


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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: Frickman on October 01, 2007, 07:34:58 PM
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What if you, or someone else, climbed the tree and topped it? If you knock the top off you eliminate alot of weight, which makes things alot safer. I've run across this situation before and hired one of the local climbers to help me out.


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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: arojay on October 02, 2007, 12:49:07 AM
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I would be very wary of where the butt is going to go when this tree comes down.


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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: Kevin on October 02, 2007, 07:24:48 AM
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arojay;
The butt will slide down the slope on the bottom of the notch.

It most likely could be climbed but that can be a hazard if you aren't so equipped.
I've climbed a few that had to be cinched and guyed but they were hanging over cottages and couldn't be pulled back.
It's not really practical for a woodlot situation.
Once the belly is taken out of the rope two or three more cranks of the winch will be enough to take the weight off the tree, the rope can be set from the ground using a throw bag and throw line.

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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: OneWithWood on October 10, 2007, 01:37:33 PM
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The tree is down and I am still alive  8)

Thanks for all the advice.

Here are some pics of the event.

The tree leaning in the woods


A closer look so you can see the split - clues of what's to come


I wrapped the tree using a ratchet belt type binder


I then used my throw line to secure a bull rope as high as I could throw.  It took a number of throws to get it. I pulled up the bull rope and tied a bowline to use as a slide and hoisted the rope up into the tree.  Then I found a suitable large tree in line with the direction of fall and secured a snatch block to it.



The bitter end of the rope was secured to the fork header on the crawler by taking several bights around and tieing it off with a slip knot and bend.
Here are a couple of pics of the bull rope and redirect



Once everything was tightened up and the weight of the tree moved back a bit I cut a birdsmouth as directed.  The tree turned out to be hollow. Duh! I then did my plunge cut, set up the hinge to about an inch in width and began cutting to the back of the tree.  It was not long before I heard that cracking sound so I withdrew the saw and walked back along my escape route.  I had only cut back a few inches and was a good six inches from where I had planned to stop.  I had not gone far when the back root popped up and the tree crunched down on the stump.




Well at least it was on the ground and I was still standing, no worse for the wear 

It was obvious that this tree was destined to be firewood.  I picked up and stowed the ropes, belts, and snatchblock and proceded to fall two very large red maples that were hogging great bunches of sunlight.  Those trees provided five 104" logs of sawmill worthy material.  The tops will make a lot of good firewood to go with the hollow tree.

Could I have done anything differently to have kept the hollow leaner upright until I had completed the cuts I wanted to make?

[Imasap]

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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: Ianab on October 10, 2007, 02:30:13 PM
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Leaning, Split AND hollow 

I think the result you got is about the best that you could have hoped for  :D

The tree is on the ground and you aren't injured  8)

Cheers

Ian


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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: beenthere on October 10, 2007, 02:46:49 PM
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Good job, as you said "it is down".  Now you have all that experience for tackling the next one  ;D ;D


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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: Timburr on October 10, 2007, 03:50:39 PM
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I'm betting, as soon as touch-down was over, you wiped your brow and said "phew". ;)


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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: Kevin on October 10, 2007, 06:20:05 PM
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You did good!
There's only so much you can do with so little good wood left at the stump.
How much tension was there in the holding rope?
Do you think it could have been a little tighter?
Looks like the straps did their job!


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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: John Haylow on October 10, 2007, 08:54:34 PM
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Glad everything went well for you.
John

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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: OneWithWood on October 12, 2007, 06:15:31 AM
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I think the holding rope could have been tighter.  It was a new rope and stretched a bit. 
The weak link in the setup was the poly rope I used to secure the snatch block to the redirect tree.  In the future I think I will use a hold down strap.  Then I won't have any reservations about putting a bunch of strain on the bull rope.

[Imasap]

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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: John Haylow on October 12, 2007, 07:11:49 AM
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A  sling is nice to use for your block.
John



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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: Kevin on October 12, 2007, 07:40:54 AM
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I'm taking one down tomorrow that's just a cylinder.
There's a hole at the ground and the tree is hollow for as far up as I can reach.
It has a slight lean towards a cottage so it needs to be pulled back.
I'll use a 5/8 static bull rope and the GRCS.
Let the games begin!  ;D

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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: OneWithWood on October 12, 2007, 09:25:02 AM
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Oooh, pics please  :D

[Imasap]

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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: Kevin on October 13, 2007, 01:36:15 PM
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Ok, I got a couple.
I opted to cut high on the trunk to escape the hollow and get into some good wood.
The hollow was larger at the roots so it worked better to cut it higher.

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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: OneWithWood on October 14, 2007, 07:16:42 AM
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How high up on the stump was you cut?

Looks nice and clean.

[Imasap]

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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: Kevin on October 14, 2007, 09:34:41 AM
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Somewhere around three to four feet off the ground.
It had to be over gunned due to the lean but it came down in the lay ok.
I dropped two other smaller maples near the power service but was able to keep the winch on the same tree and used a snatch block for a redirect.
Started at nine and was packed up by 12 noon and heading home.

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Title: Re: Kevin, I need your advice
Post by: OneWithWood on October 15, 2007, 09:52:36 AM
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You've done this before, haven't you?  :D :D :D

[Kevin]

It's a little more difficult to do when working alone but if you can tension the rope as you advance the felling cut it would help hold the tree in place longer.