wood pellet factory

jayjay54 · May 19, 2009, 10:19:28 AM

Hey guys,

I'm new here, just joined after finding some good information on here. I've got some questions i'm hoping the board can help me with. There is a new wood pellet plant being built here and i'm wondering if anybody knows much about them. Does anybody know if they take logs or chips or both? would i be able to bring material in or is it done by contract? what would the price be for material? any help would be appreciated.
I've e-mailed the company, just wondering if anybody on here has any experience with this sort of thing. I'm not a professional, my brother and i cut firewood just curious if we might be able to bring some wood there once in a while.Hoping it works out for the pros though, we used to have a paper mill in cornwall that closed, so maybe this will keep those guys busy. thanks.

Ron Wenrich · May 19, 2009, 04:56:01 PM

Most pellet mills use sawdust or something on the fine side. Some have gone to using some chips, but they must have some way to reduce the chips into smaller particles. Usually, they use some sort of hog.

To use logs, they would have to have some sort of chipper installed, as well. My guess is that chips are plentiful enough that they won't go the log route.

It'll be interesting to see what their e-mail reply is.

jayjay54 · May 19, 2009, 05:21:38 PM

thanks for the reply, i kinda assumed they would be using chips, but i don't know because they said part of the reason for building here was the supply in place from the paper mill which took logs and chips i beleive. It will be interesting see what they say. Hoping they take solid stuff at a decent price as the mill will be about a mile from my dad's place, would save a bunch in fuel getting it there!

stonebroke · May 19, 2009, 05:25:49 PM

Local pellet factory Was only going to dry sawdust and planer shavings, That did not last long. I believe they take long wood now but no whole tree chips. Also pulp chips from sawmills.

Stonebroke

Jeff · May 19, 2009, 05:28:07 PM

We have a large pellet factory within 40 miles of here and they use strictly sawdust, or at least they did. Whether they have graduated to something else now, I would not be surprised as they created a run on sawdust in the area due to their large consumption.

jayjay54 · May 19, 2009, 05:44:50 PM

apparently this mill has got clearance from ministry to produce 360,000 tonnes so that's a lot of dust :D

Anybody know what they pay?

spencerhenry · May 19, 2009, 07:04:05 PM

the mill near here takes logs, but you have to pay them to leave them there. thats how glutted the market is.

beenthere · May 19, 2009, 07:22:23 PM

Madison just announced that they plan to replace a coal/gas electric gen plant with biomass/gas. It will switch burning 110,000 tons of coal from Montana to 250,000 expected tons of biomass. They state they have no idea just where the biomass will come from. The initial projected cost is $260,000,000 and probably will be from the states stimulus money.

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jayjay54 · May 19, 2009, 07:56:21 PM

beenthere,

sounds quite similar to the situation here, ontario his going to switch over from coal to pellets to create electricity, apparently there is already a big market in Europe for this sort of thing. Could be a good thing for loggers if the switch to bio-mass for electricity catches on.

Ron Scott · May 19, 2009, 08:01:29 PM

Clean dry sawdust is what those I'm familiar with use. Getting enough clean dry sawdust on the "front end" of their process is usually the problem unless they invest in their own sawdust resource making also.

ARKANSAWYER · May 19, 2009, 08:21:01 PM

There is a plant not far from here. They started out taking just the sawdust from circle mills. They would blow sawdust into trailers and haul them down. Then mills started debarking the logs and chipping the slabs to 3/4 to fine and sending it to the plant. Now that so many mills are shut down they are having a hard time getting enough fodder. The sawdust from the band mills was to fine for them a year or two ago but they may be interested in it now.
Last price I heard of was $20 a ton for chips and sawdust. There would be about 30 ton on a load and it would take a driver 2 to 2.5 hours per trip and at $2.50 a gallon for diesel they was not making any money on the deal just getting rid of by product.
I seed ads all the time for places needing fodder to feed these plants. I just do not see how they can make money and really be saving much energy. Time you haul in and grind/dry and mold then haul out seems you would have as much energy in it as there would be produced by the pellets.
Seems to me it would be better to just haul whole trees and biomass to the burn site and run it through a large firewood processor and then burn it along with some coal or gas.

Halewood · May 20, 2009, 09:48:29 PM

I believe we are at $25.00 +- per ton right now in Virginia, and yes no bark allowed.
The chips are dumped and then ran threw a hammermill and feed two a screen that shakes all the smaller material away for fuel, the rest go to another screen and it shakes all the correct size material out and into a storage tower and the larger material goes back to be reprocessed again.

SwampDonkey · May 21, 2009, 05:09:16 AM

There is a pellet plant going online near Stanley, NB next month. I think they are taking round wood and they have a Crown Land allocation for wood volume as well. I have not seen any prices listed at the Marketing Boards yet. We'll see next month I guess. Seems to me it's around $30 a ton for chips at Borlex in Fort Fairfield, Maine. One local contractor said the margin for profit is very narrow. I think he nets $3-$4 a ton.

Ron Wenrich · May 21, 2009, 05:45:37 AM

10-12% profit doesn't seem to be that bad.

Woodhog · May 21, 2009, 11:51:27 AM

Here they pay 31 per tonne for that type of wood...

Its not worth the effort or investing in it... the truck gets the first 10.00, they dont make anything because they are paid by the tonne and their is a lot dry wood.
That leaves you 21.00/tonne to cut, get the wood to the road...

It is set up for the large operators, most of them eventually go broke. Then the company sets another bunch to try their luck until the gear is worn out and they go broke.

Nothing is set up for the small operator in the forestry around here anymore, they buy all the wood by weight not volume and it drys out too quick. They cut off the buying a lot so you dont even know if you can sell it before you get to the road.

Its all over for the little fellow in the woods...except for a bit of firewood and playing around.

beenthere · May 21, 2009, 01:05:29 PM

Woodhog
It seems I've asked this before, but where is "here" in your post?

Would help if some info was in your bio when you refer to local happenings.

Interesting perspective on the biomass collection, and brings to mind a reason the buyers put off buying wood ... to let it dry out some and lose moisture (weight) so they pay less. Prolly a game they play right along when buying by weight.

SwampDonkey · May 21, 2009, 05:03:14 PM

Your right it is a game, same old game they played for years and no way you'll ever please them. Find a little fault with some insignificant thing and they will be all over you like ants for this or that. Then cry to the government for power rate cuts and reduced stumpage fees via constant visits by hired staff that lobby none stop. For an example of the constant lobbying, go to the Hugh John Flemming Forestry Centre any day of the week and see all the yellow and green Ford trucks in the yard.

Woodhog · May 21, 2009, 05:37:33 PM

QuoteWoodhog
It seems I've asked this before, but where is "here" in your post?

I am down in the Canadian Maritimes... there are only a few places to sell wood so no bio
(lots of cheap bio-mass tho) :D

beenthere · May 21, 2009, 06:34:44 PM

:D :D OK
I'll try to remember that now. So's I don't have to ask again. ;D ;D

ARKANSAWYER · May 21, 2009, 07:10:18 PM

Well that does not help me a bit. I just reckon it is North of here. That helps me just fine.

SwampDonkey · May 22, 2009, 04:30:48 AM

Somewhere handy to Maine, Arky. Close enough. :D

ARKANSAWYER · May 22, 2009, 01:31:10 PM

Did not know they had trees that far north? :

But yep that puts me in the ball park. I do not get out much any more and I only get 3 TV channels.

Gary_C · May 22, 2009, 01:48:38 PM

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on May 21, 2009, 05:45:37 AM
10-12% profit doesn't seem to be that bad.

Most likely that is only what's left after he pays his operating costs. Doesn't account for machinery or other fixed costs.

SwampDonkey · May 22, 2009, 06:19:41 PM

And doesn't make much of a rattle in your pocket when your only sending 4-5 loads a week.

In the woods this spring I see many piles of roadside biomass out on crown land. It's the fine hardwood tops that should be left on the land. Big mistake in my view, taking the fines off site. The soil out in that back country is very shallow, not deep like around the settlements. For instance, some of the PCT I've been marking out is trees growing from moss covered rocks, literally, and mainly sandy clay mixed in through it. This hundred feet could be a mess of sphagnum/sedge over grown soup with hard bottom and the next 100 feet jumping from rock to rock, the next 100 back on some semblance of soil and stone and macadam gravel. :D

Woodhog · May 23, 2009, 08:41:02 PM

QuoteBig mistake in my view, taking the fines off site.

Nice to see someone mentioning this.

It should be common sense that this stuff stay on the site, it happens naturally and is meant to lay there and rot up...

There is so much activity and talk now with biomass, even has its own magazine...

It reminds me of what we did to the North Atlantic Fisheries, we took all the best on the top layer (Cod, Pollack,Haddock), when the fishermen could not make any money at it the government introduced fishing for so-called "under-utilized" species.

They raped the bottom for sea urchins, slime eels, deep sea clams, and even raking the rocks clean of sea weed and Irish Moss.

I hope they know what they are doing with Bio-mass, I think the potential is there for serious problems with soil structure and all sorts of organisms that are doing something that I have no idea of but should be left alone for sure...

It is quite scary... but the boys are buying the big machines , setting up the plants etc so the bankers basking in the top layer of the economy are happy as usual.

Round and round goes the turning wheel :D