UNfriendly fire folks

[ncsuclell]

Show of hands... who uses fire for ecosystem management?

Well if you raised your hand then this will shock you and make you laugh a bit.  This website came across my email the other day and it got me thinking. Click on the link and let me know what you think.  Word of advice: try to find a source for any of the information presented.  I have my thoughts but I wanted to open this up for discussion first.


http://prescribedburns.com/

[DanG]

 :D :D :D  Ignorance knows no boundaries!  It's amazing how much misinformation they can pack into a single page. :

[Gary_C]

And this internet that we all love allows one to abuse their right to be stupid and ignorant while remaining totally anonymous.

Best thing to do with that site is to let it remain unknown and unseen.

And here is some of that drivel so you don't have to click on that link.

The smoke emitted from prescribed burns and managed wildfires is unfiltered wood smoke that is extremely dangerous to unborn fetuses, infant children and elderly people. It even affects normal healthy people without warning. Wood smoke pollution is 12 times more carcinogenic than cigarette smoke, attacks the body cells up to 40 times longer, and kills at least 40,000 adults and children every year. It contains a toxic soup of more than 4,000 chemical compounds of harmful gases and particle matter that go deep in the lungs and kill people, 69 of which are known or probable human carcinogens, including arsenic, particulate matter, ozone, sulfur dioxide, carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons, dioxin and various irritant gas such as nitrogen oxides that can scar the lungs. There is no escape. The tiny smoke particles seep into houses-even through closed doors and windows reaching up to 70 percent of the outside pollution level.   


I confess that I have never seen filtered wood smoke but have seen the unfiltered kind.

And now I must run and try desperately to escape.  ;D

[Jeff]

 Public info on the site:


Here's what we know about prescribedburns.com:

    * "CAPA" owns about 100 other domains View these domains >
    * 4 registrars have maintained records for this domain since 2005-06-07 with 3 drops.
    * This domain has changed name servers 18 times over 2 years.
    * Hosted on 10 IP addresses over 4 years.
    * View 16 ownership records archived since 2008-04-12 .
    * Wiki article on Prescribedburns.com
    * 944 other web sites are hosted on this server.

DomainTools for Windows®

Now you can access domain ownership records anytime, anywhere... right from your own desktop! Find out more >
Registrant:
   CAPA
   Gen Del
   Prescott, Arizona 86301
   United States

   Domain Name: PRESCRIBEDBURNS.COM
      Created on: 08-Jul-09
      Expires on: 08-Jul-11
      Last Updated on: 09-Nov-09

   Administrative Contact:
      Citizens Against Polluted Air, CAPA 
      CAPA
      Gen Del
      Prescott, Arizona 86301
      United States
      (509) 278-7180      Fax --

   Technical Contact:
      Citizens Against Polluted Air, CAPA 
      CAPA
      Gen Del
      Prescott, Arizona 86301
      United States
      (509) 278-7180      Fax --

   Domain servers in listed order:
      NS1.GIGILIST.COM
      NS2.GIGILIST.COM

[sprucebunny]

Guess they don't have a campfire when they go camping ...... no s'mores for them  :D
(I didn't click on it)

[Sprucegum]

They got one thing right "THERE IS NO ESCAPE"   :D  :D  :D

[Gary_C]

:D :D :D  Ignorance knows no boundaries!  It's amazing how much misinformation they can pack into a single page. :

Do you suppose they have a writers school for these people that write this crap?

[pappy19]

:D :D :D  Ignorance knows no boundaries!  It's amazing how much misinformation they can pack into a single page. :

Do you suppose they have a writers school for these people that write this crap?

Yep, just pick any Ivy League school.

Pap

[WDH]

What the wise scholar DanG said.

[Ron Scott]

This is serious stuff by some; the USFS has had lawsuits concerning the smoke hazards. Smoke management is a specialty in itself, but at taxpayer's expense.

[treecyclers]

Public info on the site:


Registrant:
   CAPA
   Gen Del
   Prescott, Arizona 86301
   United States

   Domain Name: PRESCRIBEDBURNS.COM
      Created on: 08-Jul-09
      Expires on: 08-Jul-11
      Last Updated on: 09-Nov-09

   Administrative Contact:
      Citizens Against Polluted Air, CAPA 
      CAPA
      Gen Del
      Prescott, Arizona 86301
      United States
      (509) 278-7180      Fax --

   Technical Contact:
      Citizens Against Polluted Air, CAPA 
      CAPA
      Gen DelSpokan
      Prescott, Arizona 86301
      United States
      (509) 278-7180      Fax --

   Domain servers in listed order:
      NS1.GIGILIST.COM
      NS2.GIGILIST.COM

In looking up the information on this "site", it links back to an eco-terror group (I class all eco-nazi groups in this fashion), in Spokane, WA, heart of the eco-wiener land.
I know about the smoke that hangs in the Prescott area, and it isn't pleasant, but these "people" haven't learned a thing about forest health in the last 10 years.
They "conveniently" forget about the Indian fire, Rodeo-Chedeski, and the other various fires that have scorched hundreds of thousands of acres over the past few years, many of which were right near Prescott.
There's an area just south of town that is a haven for the eco types, based from Prescott College, an incubator for those folks. They walk around in their modified rag clothing, nappy hair, au-naturel (women don't shave a thing), driving nails into the trees and hugging them.
Yes, I bore witness to it with my own eyes, though I wish I hadn't.
I've found more than a few of those nails too.
It's the dis-information I worry about.
People that flat lie to get what they want and are able to get people to believe their lies are frustrating to me.

[ncsuclell]

So after reading some of your comments I do have to confess that I was inaccurate about the site.  They now have their sources on the site. 

But I did some fact checking on their sources and few things seem off.  Their main point about woods smoke is all the toxins in it.  Well their main source is a report that was put out in 2002 (I think) that looked at the chemicals that came off a wood burning stove.  That article claimed high levels of "dioxins" but later the researchers recanted and found that there was error in the math and the dioxin levels were much lower. 

I'm slowly shifting through their sources a little at a time to find as many holes as I can.  As I find them I will let ya'll know. :D

[SPIKER]

I could bet that their SOURCES are other web sites managed by the same people with the same intent.   maybe you can get a link posted on there how many toxins / chemicals in their HEMP rope they smoke! lol...   I wonder if they send out millions of mailers made from paper to people to say stop killing the forests! hahaha  If so at least we will have something to start our prescribed burn with!, that that would be IRONIC!  :D ;D 8)

Mark

[Tom]

I'll bet it's no time before the activity on their Link draws them here.  Talking about cluttering a place up, that would do it.  Sometimes those errant sites are fun to look at but bring trouble home.  There's nothing like spending your time fighting fires when the only reason for their showing up would be a fight.  Usually it's better to read their information from a google page or separate browser window to keep from attracting them here.  Clicking on a link in a post here, just leaves a trail.  It's not like you would ever convince them that they are wrong.

[Phorester]

My grandmother spent her life on a Tennessee farm and for 70 years heated her house with wood stoves and a fireplace. And of course cooked over a wood stove.  I now see why she died at 102.  All that toxic unfiltered woodsmoke shortened her life.

[BcWoodWorks]

Wood smoke pollution is 12 times more carcinogenic than cigarette smoke, attacks the body cells up to 40 times longer, and kills at least 40,000 adults and children every year. It contains a toxic soup of more than 4,000 chemical compounds of harmful gases and particle matter that go deep in the lungs and kill people, 69 of which are known or probable human carcinogens, including arsenic, particulate matter, ozone, sulfur dioxide, carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons, dioxin and various irritant gas such as nitrogen oxides that can scar the lungs. There is no escape.[/i]

40...4,000...40,000...What about 400,000? Someone is just using random numbers me thinks. 12 times as carcinogenic as cigs? Being a cigarette smoker, I'd suck down wood smoke before my tobacco any day!  :D

This is my favorite part.   "

It contains a toxic soup of more than 4,000 chemical compounds of harmful gases and particle matter that go deep in the lungs and kill people, 69 of which are known or probable human carcinogens

Probable human carcinogens! Give me a break. They can't prove it, so they throw that probable in there. Spooky language. Toxic soup is another one. More spooky language to scare the "sheeple". Particulate matter is pretty good too, I suppose sub-atomic particles are particulate matter right?

I agree, the problem with the internet is that you can simply post misinformation at will, without even being required to state your sources. However, it has given me hours of laughs...and if John Smith of Internetsburg wants to post my next chuckle...By all means.  ;D

[SwampDonkey]

As I've said before concerning these type of threads, we just don't get that propaganda around here. I think the biggest problem is in places where government feeds the frenzy with handouts. We are a poor part of the country so there isn't as much money to toss into the stove. We have paper wring jobs for government analysis here to, but it goes on deaf ears. Never is there a public consultation on these papers, and one that was suppose to happen concerning forest management was out right canceled by government. The authors themselves held a meeting, but only in the confines of the city their University sits. Forgotten sooner than it took to write. :D

[Phorester]

Unless I missed it, there's no place on that site for feedback either.  Typical alarmist - they don't want any questions or challenges to their views.  Don't want to run the risk of having to explain or justify anything, or to have somebody else counter their claims.

[crtreedude]

Of course all the exhaust spewed by the mechanical method is not talked about, nor the danger to the workers.

Forest have been burning for as long as there are forest. To act like it can be prevented is pretty naive. And pretty much all of California deals with the smoke from forest fires on a regular basis, you would think they would be dropping dead like flies.

If smoke from burns is too dangerous and since California seems to be on fire about half the time, perhaps the EPA should demand that California be vacated. Might deal with their budget problems too.  :D

[Tom]

That makes such good sense, crtreedude.  Isn't it amazing, the number of people who can see only to the end of their nose?

A million years ago, what happened when lightning set a fire in Oklahoma and the prevailing winds took it to Maine?  Did Smokey Bear put those out too?  People tend to measure by their own ruler.  That's actually OK, in my mind.  What I have a problem with is when they measure My stuff by Their ruler.

[crtreedude]

Perish the thought that we make sense, eh Tom?

One thing I have done with the overly sensitive is to read to them how much "detritus" is allowed in canned food, frozen veggies, ketchup, salsa, etc. They generally start turning a bit green when I start talking about how much pieces of rats are in their soup.  :D

What will kill you quicker than anything is doing nothing.

[BcWoodWorks]

Forest have been burning for as long as there are forest. To act like it can be prevented is pretty naive. And pretty much all of California deals with the smoke from forest fires on a regular basis, you would think they would be dropping dead like flies.

So true. I seem to be alright...

:D Ok, so I couldn't say that with a straight face. At least the hillsides fires haven't killed me yet.

[crtreedude]

You know that website was written by someone who tried camping and had the dang smoke chasing them around and around the campfire.  :D

[chainspinrunner]

C.A.P.A.= Come And Protest A lot!

[BcWoodWorks]

You know that website was written by someone who tried camping and had the dang smoke chasing them around and around the campfire.  :D

:D What was that saying they taught me when I was a kid?

"I hate rabbits, I hate rabbits I hate rabbits."

If only CAPA had been taught the magic smoke away phrase.  ;D