Saw mill restoration

[Carpenter]

Clearance on my saw is a little over 20".  I have sawn logs as large as the carriage will allow, which is 42".  You can raise the husk, but it won't make much difference in the size of log you can saw.  I've only sawn 20x20 for one guy in the past 25 years. 

Thanks for the advice, I really thought 19 1/2" of blade might be enough.  And it would be a whole lot easier to leave the husk set where it is.  Our carraige will allow a 36" diameter log and to be honest I think that is as large a log I will run into around here. 

You have a learning curve with the feeds.  You don't want to come back too fast and be hitting your stops.  You'll jar a log out of the dogs or cause it to slip a little.  My stops consisted of old tires, when I ran hand mills.  It gave a little spring instead of a jarring stop. 

The tires sound like a good idea,  cheap and simple.  I did not hit the stops, but I was really surprised by the momentum of the carraige when it got to moving. 

[bandmiller2]

Carpy, I can see why you don't want to raise your husk and disturb all your linkages and feed shaft.You can get by with the 191/2" over the knees,but it would be better to utilze more of the saw from a power standpoint the further from the arbor your teeth are the more power it takes to run the saw,its a reverse leverage thing.Same as taking more hp to run a larger saw.I cut for years with a 44" headsaw and never ran into a log I couldn't breakdown.Frank C.

[bandmiller2]

Anouther matter thats not thought about much is the angle of the bit coming into the log.A large log or a small saw when the bit enteres the log at its max cut it hits almost flat,not enough hook and pulls harder.Hold a flat stick near the top of the saw horizontal to the ways and you can see the entrance angle.Thats one advantage of a bandsaw the tooth always enteres at the same hook angle.Frank C.

[Ron Wenrich]

The tires sound like a good idea,  cheap and simple.  I did not hit the stops, but I was really surprised by the momentum of the carraige when it got to moving. 

You're going to be really surprised when you snap a cable.   :D  If you're just doing hobby sawing, you may never break one, but if you work on a regular basis, you might get one to wear out.  When they break, you are totally helpless to stop it.  That's why you need a backstop.  Same goes for going forwards.  It can break in either direction.

[Carpenter]

You're going to be really surprised when you snap a cable.   :D 
You're right. :D
     I may never break a cable but it sure would surprise me if I did.  Actually this mill is more than just a hobby mill.  I run a construction business and this will be a part of it.  We will do some custom sawing but, I am more focused on the end product.  To make a long story short, I like to build stuff and I like the idea of being able to use some local materials.  Thats what I bought the mill for.  I can't say right now how often it will get used but I hope a lot.  It sure is fun. 

[Carpenter]

It finally runs.  4 months and 2 days after I brought the first load of iron and rotted wood home I cut my first boards today.   8) This is the first log on the mill ready to be cut.


These are the very first boards.


It cut very well.  I did throw the belt once.  That 1st log was the top of a pine tree that I had already gotten a 28' 8x10 out of this summer that I cut with my chainsaw.  That was the day before I decided I needed a saw mill.  The part that we cut today was not very big, I squared it up and cut two 4/4 boards off of it and was left with a 12/4.  I could have gotten another 4/4 board, but this being my first time sawing, I didn't want to run the dogs into the blade and thought it was a pretty nice 3" x6 1/2 inch piece of lumber.  But over all the saw worked very well, none of the bearings even felt warm when I was done, and I had the blade running for a good half an hour. 
     I got pretty good at feathering the reverse as well to stop the carraige right where I wanted. 
   

[VictorH]

Congrats and what a restoration.  Have enjoyed following your progress.  Nice looking lumber.  Enjoy  ;D

[bandmiller2]

Carpy you "done good" probibly one person in ten with a pile of old mill will ever get it running.Theirs no outher way to learn to be a sawyer than doing it.Do you know the history of that old mill??it probibly built most of a town.Sealing the wood and a nice mill building when time permits.With a roof you can putter around the mill on days too bad for construction.When you get into some big stuff let us know how the 530 does,theirs quite a differance between pine and oak.You will need to make yourself a chart for 1",2",and 4"cuts the dimentions plus kerf I usally figure the kerf at 5/16"it will seldome come out just right but usally close.Some sawyers always cut the last [dog] board two inch when you get comfortable with your mill it will be your call I go down to an inch, but your always nervous.Keep us in the loop,anything Ron W. tells you can be taken to the bank.Frank C.

[Ron Wenrich]

You will need to get something over top of the saw.  It just has to be something to keep the sun off the saw when you are sawing.  The sun will cause problems with your saw.  It will wobble more, heat up easier, and just be hard to cut.

When I first started, I just put up a little frame and threw slabs on top of it to keep the sun off. 

[nas]

way to go carpenter 8)

That's the best place for those first boards!  Keep them on display in the kitchen 8) :D

Nick

[KyTreeFarmer]

Carpenter
Great job!! Feels good to see those first boards come off after all the work. It probably took me 4 months and 2 days to even get started on mine!!

KTF

[sawguyver]

Carpenter, Bandmiller2, and others,
Thanks for the great read!
You've made it look easy (and I know its not). The advice and discussion has been wonderful to follow and has been one of the topics I so look forward to reading.
Can't wait to see more lumber and what you do for sawdust removal.

Carpenter,
Just one question if I may. Have you been around sawmills before or could you have learned all this from this fantastic place.
Keep up the good work and thanks again for including us.
p.s.

[captain_crunch]

Carpenter
That has to feel good saveing the mill and rebuilding it. But one drawback is if something don't work right you sure know the guy to blame ;D ;D ;D. Like they mentioned you need a roof soon heat and rain do strange things to a circle mill
Know what you mean about dog board and worrieng about a wreck. On my Bellsaw 2" is as narrow as I can get dog board so with dogs all the way in you got about 1" clearance but it SURE don't look like it when dog gets to saw . Where my carrage is hyd driven I was able to run carrage by saw without it turning I was able to prove it to myself.
But don't think you are done yet because Now comes building all the conveniances like places to hang PeeVee,Pickaroon,Hammer and Tape measure

[Carpenter]

Carpenter,
Just one question if I may. Have you been around sawmills before or could you have learned all this from this fantastic place.
Keep up the good work and thanks again for including us.
p.s.



I'd never been around a sawmill in my life before.  Thanks for all the help guys.  It was almost like you were there. 
  I will get a roof over it soon.  Right now though, I have to focus my attention to some log moving equipment.  I've got access to a good supply of pines approximately 10 miles away, just need to find a way to get them here. 

[fishpharmer]

Carpenter, not sure how I missed the boards.  Great job.  Your mill looks super.  You will be building all sorts of stuff soon. 8) 8)

[Woodchuck53]

Morning guys. Carpy, what a great build. You have inspired some of us older folks to keep at it. Life and no money tends to get in the way as well as her to do list. I followed it and like the the replys from the team. If kids are around set some boundries right off. Guards are your friend as well as sight see R's. Keep them in place and the others for back.

With it built on a flat slab how are you moving sawdust away? That will be come a head ache real fast. Looks like some place for a good vacumn/ blower arrangement.

Looks great. Stay safe Chuck

[Carpenter]

Hi, Woodchuck.
     I have not figured out what to do about saw dust removal yet.  The big problem is that I centered one of the cement block piers which seemed like a good idea at the time but it is right in the way.  I may have to nock it out.  A blower would be easy but I would rather use a chain drag removal system.  We have a couple of old manure spreaders that I could use for parts.  The flat pad is really not a problem although not as good as it would have been to have a trough under the blade.  I didn't pour the pad it was already on the property. 
     Right now my saw dust removal system is a scoop shovel.  If I can figure a way to get around the pier that is in the way I can drag the dust flat under the ways off of the edge of the pad to a trough and then have another drag chain to drag the dust up to a pile.  Anyway, there are still a few issues to work out but it sure is fun to run the old mill.
     Thanks for the interest.

[bandmiller2]

Carpy, now that you have run your mill you can see where the blade throws the sawdust usally you can form a piece of sheet metal to direct it onto a conveyer or to an easier place to shovel.Frank C.

[Carpenter]

OK, guys.  I thought I was done with this thread, but I've got a few more questions and wanted to keep everything together.  First of all we had some issues with the blade and power.  We were fortunate enough to have a saw doc in Nebraska and he seems to know his stuff.  There were some high spots in our blade and it was dished as I posted about before, it did stand up at speed, which was 600 rpm with the flat belt system but we must have been loosing speed in the cut so the blade was falling back down and making a tapered board if that makes sence.  I measured the distance from the blade to each headblock and that was the same but consistently the boards were 1/4" wider on the end of the log than at the beginning, and they were a little out of square as well, but they were perfectly square on the front end.  So, something was odviously happening in the cut.
     Last weekend we took the blade to the saw doc.  He pointed out a few high spots in the blade as well as worn shanks and a power problem, or lack of power problem.  With a 36 tooth blade we need 70 horsepower and we were running it off of 35.  Which brings me to my next question.  How to convert this mill to run off of pto?  We are having the blade hammered to run at 540.  Even if we continue to run it off of the flat belt we are probably loosing enough speed in the cut to come close to 540 and when we get it converted to PTO we can put a 70 horsepower tractor on it and if necessary we can run it off of one of the 90 horsepower tractors.  We can also increase our feed speed a bit and with sufficient horsepower put those teeth to use. 
     The first question I have is do we need the flat belt pulley as a flywheel or should we take it off.  If we take it off it will make attatching the pto shaft much easier.  Also, I had a local machinist stop by and he pointed out that the pto on a modern tractor with a pto brake would stop fairly quickly and the added momentum of the flywheel could lead to excess wear on the system.  However, I would think that the added momentum would help the saw to power through knots and may help with excess vibration, so, Is it needed or not?  Do most saws that have been converted to pto have a fly wheel or not?
    My second question is do we need some sort of a slip clutch or sheer pin in the system?  We will be running 90 horse max, if something did stop the blade will it kill the tractor before it bent a drive train component or not?
    Which leads to my third question, How heavy does the drive train have to be?
     My fourth question seems a little redundant but, how much of an angle can the drive shaft be run at?  The saw arbor is 42" off of the ground, So what I am trying to figure out is how long of a shaft I need to run to the tractor or if it has to be stepped down with two shafts and u joints on a frame, to minimize vibration. 
     I know these are a lot of questions to what seems like a simple operation.  And there are probably a lot of answers as well, Good, Bad, Ugly, or indifferent any responses would be appreciated.  Thanks. 

[bandmiller2]

Carpy,wile the flywheel effect of the old cast flat pulley won't hurt, you don't need it, plenty or rotating mass with the tractor.You need a safety clutch,it can be done with belts,slip,or shear bolt.Easiest way is to find an old piece of farm machinery with a slip clutch such as a blower or bailer.The straighter your PTO shaft the better even if you have to dump some fill for the tractor to sit on,slight angularity is OK.Expensive but if you could find heavy multi-groove "V" pulleys with a jack shaft it would lower your drive and satisfy the slip clutch need.Least desireable is a shear bolt,I'am not sure what size you'd need,mayby someone here that ownes a Belsaw can tell you the size then I'd go a little larger.Power is your friend with a circular mill, really the bigger the better.How heavy the drive train? look at the implements you use with your big tractor and have everything at least that strong.Alot of outher things will happen before you stall that 90hp diesel and none of them good.Fasten everything down well and guard it try to figure what would happen if something came loose and try not to be there yourself. Frank C.

[thecfarm]

Nice job you have done there. You will learn more as time goes on and be able to help out other members.

[bandmiller2]

Carpy,forgot to mention be sure the rotation is right with the PTO before you get too far.Right hand mill,tractor on the back side,left hand, tractor on your side.Frank C.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

Carpenter I think i made mention on the fist page about seeing as the mills a left hander like my table top mill Id just take the flatbelt pulley of and find a 6' pto slip clutch mounted strait onto the saw shaft will do the trick  ;)

Heres a pic of min to give you an idea of how ive set mine up the only thing id change is going from a 2'6" to a 4' pto shaft but this ones worked for 11 years  ;) :D ;D ;D ;D 8)

Regards Chris 

[mad murdock]

Wow Carpenter!  That is some fine work there!  My place was built with douglas fir sawed from the ground I own back in the 1950's-1950's and there was an old Circle mill on my place, I know where the mill shack was, and have found a few flat belt pulleys and other bits here and there.  Seeing your set-up make me want to look for an old derelict mill and set it up on my place!  Would be a far sight better than my CSM that I am using now!  will keep checking your progress for more inspiration!  Again, Great Job!

[captain_crunch]

Carpenter
I forgot camera or I would get you some pics of my PTO But here are a couple older ones





Hope these are some help to you will try for some better ones tomorrow
Brian