Wind Farms?

[mr T]

Thanx for all the feedback on this Were not happy with this & are going to the state lurc meeting to protest Wel see what happens Heres a link to the view from my porch (without wind mills )

http://highlandmts.org/

[Dana]

Pappy in the link you provided, I couldn't see where the "farmer" ever put his name to the article? It makes me wonder if it's a fictious article put out by the anti-wind people.

[SwampDonkey]

I've never heard anyone complaining of these windmills on Mars Hill. I listen to radio and watch the local US TV station and it's not ever brought up. I have no say what goes on over there anyway. Always going to be opposition to every single thing brought forward, just human nature. Not in my back yard syndrome. ;)

[pappy]

Dana,,

From the link right at the top ..

He was interviewed by Don Bangart who wrote the following on behalf of the farmer, whose contract with the wind company prevents him from speaking openly about any problems.

I've never heard anyone complaining of these windmills on Mars Hill.

SD,
I guess you never cross the border and have a coffee with the locals..
http://www.saveourscenicarea.org/documents/MarsHill2FreedomLetter2008May.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpFLsNiXE0g&feature=related


From folks that live on an island 12 miles off the coast of Maine.. One must be careful of what they wish for :-\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quSkEbYnygA&feature=related

[Brad_S.]

Discussions on wind turbines are like discussions of logging. You can find videos on the web on how terrible logging is. How it is a travesty against nature and the environment. How it is an eyesore. How it affects the wildlife and quality of human life in areas effected. Those who populate this web site know better than anyone how bogus such claims are.

So it is with these anti-wind videos. I'm not saying there aren't any issues with wind farms, but the anti-wind examples being posted here seem to be bordering on propaganda. There are groups that will enter a small town that is being prospected for their wind resource with pre-packaged anti-wind media kits. They stir up resentment even though they don't live anywhere near the area in question. You can hear the same "testimonials" verbatim from town to town.

Earlier in this thread there was a complaint that the farms are being set up on timber company owned property and locals aren't getting a piece of the pie. Yet we are presented with a farmers complaint that there is inequity of payments to individual lessors. By keeping the sites on those parcels owned by large companies, the wind companies can circumvent such accusations and also avoid having to negotiate with several dozen individuals. Also, these large parcels are usually more remote and thus impact fewer humans. Danged if they do, Danged if they don't.

The 'anonymous' farmer complaining about how he is being trampled over? He has a contract. If the wind company is exceeding the terms of the contract, why doesn't he take them to court? Sounds like a fish tale to me.

The aesthetic part is all relative. i thought the sight of turbines spinning gracefully was inspiring long before my current employment. I can understand how others may not agree though. I do find it amusing though that one group fighting a potential site claims it will destroy their town, their quality of life and will discourage tourism while what few outsiders who do venture into town are gagging on the smell from the nearby pulp mill. ( No offense to you pulp-ers, but Dang that smell is nasty!)

I empathize, Mr. T, but base your opinion on facts you observe, not on what you are being fed. Visit a site. Listen for yourself. See how many citizens are really within range of a turbine to be affected by strobing. Make your own observations of wildlife. (One of my team mates has photos of a bear exploring the base of a turbine.)

Whether detractors care to admit it or not, there is a tremendous amount of money being pumped into many Maine towns that have nothing else going for them these days and many of the local business are extremely grateful for it.



Stetson Wind Project, Danforth, ME

[SwampDonkey]

That never makes the news pappy. So this old country boy wouldn't know. Mars Hill was dying before windmills. They closed up about every shop downtown accept one grocery store since i was a kid. That was a boom town 30 years ago. The Canadian dollar took a dive in the late 80's and they lost a lot of cross border shopping. It was bad enough that the exchange at the bank was bad, but what did the merchants do, they took an extra 10 % on the exchange rate at the cash til if you offered Canadian currency. We could change money to US dollars for exchange plus 2% at the banks. They were sending a message they didn't want Canadian shoppers, so fine. When Loring was closed those little towns also suffered a big blow. The Aroostook Centre Mall has also been struggling in PI as did their downtown, Caribou far worst for downward spiral.

[isawlogs]

 SD , I just heard on the news here that our Goobermint has backed out of the deal , so you are temporarely keeping your elactrickaty , there was just too much back benching to deal with.

[SwampDonkey]

Marcel, yes that was today's big news. Another reprieve until we vote the bums out. :D

[isawlogs]

Hope your cost don't go too high now , there was a freeze on cost in the terms of the offer .. now itsd wide open ... 

[SwampDonkey]

Not wide open, just the inflationary increment that was going to be after the 5 year cap. Usually around 3%. There could be a lot more savings if the government had tightened it's belt concerning where it throws it's money. The government has made a lot of bad decisions and this is not the first that the constituents have converged on the legislature. The refurbishment of that albatross in Lepreau was one big mistake. The AEC was way out of touch with cost estimates, like not by a couple months, almost 2 years.  Didn't help that Irving dropped a turbine into the drink and it had to go back to Europe for refurbishment. : Just like building a small bridge across a stream around here, they sure like to drag out the job time.

[TexasSawmiller]

Discussions on wind turbines are like discussions of logging. You can find videos on the web on how terrible logging is. How it is a travesty against nature and the environment. How it is an eyesore. How it affects the wildlife and quality of human life in areas effected. Those who populate this web site know better than anyone how bogus such claims are.

So it is with these anti-wind videos. I'm not saying there aren't any issues with wind farms, but the anti-wind examples being posted here seem to be bordering on propaganda. There are groups that will enter a small town that is being prospected for their wind resource with pre-packaged anti-wind media kits. They stir up resentment even though they don't live anywhere near the area in question. You can hear the same "testimonials" verbatim from town to town.

Earlier in this thread there was a complaint that the farms are being set up on timber company owned property and locals aren't getting a piece of the pie. Yet we are presented with a farmers complaint that there is inequity of payments to individual lessors. By keeping the sites on those parcels owned by large companies, the wind companies can circumvent such accusations and also avoid having to negotiate with several dozen individuals. Also, these large parcels are usually more remote and thus impact fewer humans. Danged if they do, Danged if they don't.

The 'anonymous' farmer complaining about how he is being trampled over? He has a contract. If the wind company is exceeding the terms of the contract, why doesn't he take them to court? Sounds like a fish tale to me.

The aesthetic part is all relative. i thought the sight of turbines spinning gracefully was inspiring long before my current employment. I can understand how others may not agree though. I do find it amusing though that one group fighting a potential site claims it will destroy their town, their quality of life and will discourage tourism while what few outsiders who do venture into town are gagging on the smell from the nearby pulp mill. ( No offense to you pulp-ers, but Dang that smell is nasty!)

I empathize, Mr. T, but base your opinion on facts you observe, not on what you are being fed. Visit a site. Listen for yourself. See how many citizens are really within range of a turbine to be affected by strobing. Make your own observations of wildlife. (One of my team mates has photos of a bear exploring the base of a turbine.)

Whether detractors care to admit it or not, there is a tremendous amount of money being pumped into many Maine towns that have nothing else going for them these days and many of the local business are extremely grateful for it.



Stetson Wind Project, Danforth, ME

Hi folks,

I'm a newbie here and this is my first post.

I'm going to mirror what Brad says above.  I worked wind turbines for about 2 years, even the one he has pictured in Danforth ME.  I personally could never here a wind turbine operate from 1100 feet away.  Its actually pretty quiet even directly underneath the blades, where you hear only a gentle "Woosh".

As far as power production:  Currently, there is a second grid being built in Texas due to over-saturation.  Theres also a transmission line being built up the middle of the US.  When this is finished, wind power will be able to provide 100% of the nations power.

I also saw where someone quotes the turbines as being 400 feet tall and having blades 240 feet long.  land based wind turbines in the states are roughly 282 feet tall to the center of the hub, and the blades run 134 feet.  There ARE some offshore sites that have some 300 footers, but they keep them offshore due to FAA regulations

Just had to chime in.

Off that subject, I came here as a recommendation from Ely. I'm looking to buy a plot of land in SE OK so I can build a small house someday.  Looking forward to learning from you knowledgeable folks

[Bill]

Welcome aboard  TexasSawmiller

8)   

[SwampDonkey]

Mars Hill Wind Farm

Yeah, the 240 foot blade thing was the first I ever heard of it. They are 138 feet or there abouts according to the Mars Hill Wind Farm.

[Mooseherder]

This is a blade from the Mars Hill site.

[TimRB]

Theres also a transmission line being built up the middle of the US.  When this is finished, wind power will be able to provide 100% of the nations power.

Now hold on a second.  According to this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_the_United_States

if we continue building windmills at the current rate, they will be able to supply 20 percent of the US electrical demand in twenty years.  If that's true (and I think it's at least in the ballpark) probably wind power will *never* be able to supply all our needs.

Tim

[SwampDonkey]

I think even T. Boone Pickens had the wind taken from his sails on that notion not long ago and he was only proposing 22% of energy from wind turbines. ;)

http://www.energyboom.com/wind/t-boone-pickens-proving-be-hot-air-about-wind-energy

[stonebroke]

Mars Hill Wind Farm

Yeah, the 240 foot blade thing was the first I ever heard of it. They are 138 feet or there abouts according to the Mars Hill Wind Farm.

I think 155 ft is about the limit for over the road travel.

Stonebroke

[Cedarman]

Even if it is only 20%, that is still a bunch of electrons jumping back and forth.  That much less fossil fuel.  Get more geothermal, nuclear, biomass and leave the coal in the ground.

[pappy]

When this is finished, wind power will be able to provide 100% of the nations power.

Doubt It   :

Texas talk    ;)  :D  ;D

Welcome TexasSawmiller

[Magicman]

Ya'll gonna use all tha wind up and thar ain't gonna be any left by tha time it get's ta me,  At least that's what Bubba said....... ;D


TexasSawmiller.....Welcome to The Forestry Forum.  And we can learn from your knowledge....... 8)

[Brad_S.]

One of my favorite anti-wind statements was the assertation that the resistance that hundreds of thousands of turbines would create on the earth's winds would cause the rotation of the earth to slow down and doom our planet.  :D :D :D

That from the same people who feel the space shuttle is effecting the weather. :

[Stan snider]

Welcome Texas Sawmiller           I have been up to the base of some mills out near Buffalo, OK and was really surprised at how quiet they were, with probably a 20 mph wind blowing. If there is enough wind to make a windmill viable there is already noise so that whole line of arguement might be a smokescreen.    I'm sure they sound worse just ascross the fence on the neighbors ground.                                        Now if we want to talk wind, why not put some on the hills near the Potomac. ??? That would be the height of efficiency.  Stan

[TexasSawmiller]

When this is finished, wind power will be able to provide 100% of the nations power.

Doubt It   :

Texas talk    ;)  :D  ;D

Welcome TexasSawmiller

Thanks for the welcome everyone

Just FYI, The reason they have to build another grid in Texas was because of the wind farms over-saturating the grid here

Wind parks here operate at about an 80% average due to the location.  This occurs all through the center of the US due to the prevailing winds.

Other sites don't do as well. Take the Stetson mountain project.  GE was told that that particular park would only operate at 20% capacity, yet they still erected it.  Why is this?  The answer is two fold.  One, to create jobs.  Two, if the park DOESN'T Produce at optimum capacity, the owners can take a loss on their taxes.

Power companies aren't going to tell you that wind will produce 100% of the energy needed for the simple fact they don't want the cost of electricity to drop.  They also don't want to put their other plants (Coal, steam, etc) out of business.

T Boone Pickens got away from wind when the Guvmint brought Cap and Trade around.  They were going to tax the Bejeezus out of his parks, so he quit while he was ahead.

In short, it boils down to politics

Oil companies wont tell you there are vehicle designs that will get 100 miles to the gallon

How about the guy that made an HHO generator that turned water to burnable hydrogen and oxygen?  He actually ran his car for 100 miles on 4 ounces of water.  He's proven that You CAN turn water into an alternative fuel source, but we still don't have cars that run off water.  As a matter of fact, this guy pretty much dropped off the radar. I'm guessing he's sitting somewhere in the tropics living the good life after a load of cash suddenly dropped into his hands ;D

Again, thanks for the welcome everyone

[mr T]

Welcome Texas Sawmiller I think the dimensions I mentioned were based on overall specs not individual pieces From 2 miles away I dont think anyone would notice 100 ft more or less Just a thought

[pappy]

Wind parks here operate at about an 80% average due to the location.  This occurs all through the center of the US due to the prevailing winds.

So why are they planting them up here in the "County" (marginal :-\ check the link for northern Maine ) when the coast has the wind they need / want.. : Less affluent folks I'll bet is the answer ?
http://www.windpoweringamerica.gov/images/windmaps/me_50m_800.jpg

Other sites don't do as well. Take the Stetson mountain project.  GE was told that that particular park would only operate at 20% capacity, yet they still erected it.  Why is this?  The answer is two fold.  One, to create jobs.  Two, if the park DOESN'T Produce at optimum capacity, the owners can take a loss on their taxes.

Double take from the tax payers  = you and me?  Is Stetson even on the grid yet or is the juice going over to N.B. Canada like Mars Hill ??

That's what folks / me are upset about is we lose our vistas to these egg beaters to make juice for the New England grid, we don't get any of it !! Not even a break on our elec rates.. There isn't even a line to tie these mills into the N.E grid ...   :-\ all that money spent for 20% capacity..  >:(

Have a nice weekend everybody,, Im headed out into God's country on my snowmobile, should just about do it for our snow cover for this year.. Really nice views of the wilderness.  8)

Oh ya Sunday morning brunch at "Outback" down by the Fish river..  home fries, bacon, eggs, toast, coffee and some piece and quiet.  8) Stop on by..  ;)