Re: Stress Grading

[J_T]

You are right Dan G No one now days wants to be responsible for their self.They expect the government to look out for them.This old house i am in was probly sawed on a steam mill after all these years i would hate to try to take it apart! We don't have much snow here but you could land a chopper on the roof . Their moto back then seam to be you don't build it right you don't get paid.Where did good sence go?? Last Sat. i nipped the end of one finger almoust off on my 50in saw . Was that Simmonds fault? No i been told better by outhers and hear on the FFand i was dumb enough to reach for a chip beside the blade and the thing bit me. Helped my hearing i thank i am smarter now too ;D

[Don P]

We came under the new International Residential Building Code recently...(wonder if the whole world really knows anything about it  :D). Anyway, now all structural wood must be grade stamped and kd. This sort of bothers me, I view it as taking an individuals right to provide their own shelter away. But, it opens up an opportunity, all we have up here now are NHLA graders. Have any of you been through training or know who to contact about getting a graders certificate?

[woodmills1]

New Hampshire is i think the only state that has a native #2 construction graders liscence, which I have.  I think NY also has a local option.

[Brian_Bailey]

Don,

The agency that governs softwood lumber rules in your area are the ones you want to talk to about getting certified.

Here in NY, if your a small mill, your putting yourself at financial risk dealing in construction lumber for residential use, IMHO.

[DanG]

Looks like the big corporate types have struck another blow against the little guy, huh?  I plan to look into Florida's rules on licensing. If I hire a grader to come by periodically, it just adds another step to the process, which translates to $$. It would take almost as long to pass the lumber before his peepers as it does to saw it. :-/

Brian, do you see this as a liability issue? Are folks actually getting sued for bad boards?

[Brian_Bailey]

DanG,  

Yes, and no I haven't heard of anyone getting sued. BUT as a small producer, if your not careful, you're setting yourself up to maybe getting sued.

You see, in NY, as a producer of unstamped native construction lumber. You must certify in writing that the lumber meets the code requirements for residential construction ( agri.buildings are exempt ). This certification goes on record along with the building plans at the inspectors office. Now don't get me wrong IMO this is good. What we have is a trail of liability. Kind of keeps everybody honest, well maybe?

Let's say your a contractor and I am a small mill willing to supply the lumber needed by you to construct a house.  All the paperwork is approved and I supply you with the lumber. The inspector is happy because he has my certified invoice in hand and on file.

Now lets say your well into the construction phase and you discover that you misfigured on the amount of 2x's you needed. So instead of coming back to me, you find a mill that will give you a great deal on the lumber needed to finish the structure. Now remember, none of this lumber is stamped! No identification marks and lets not forget that the lumber you got a great deal on, really wasn't all that good grade wise.

Now lets mosey down the road a few years and we find that nice house just suffered some major structural damage due to a heavy snow load. The roof caved in and some people got hurt. They're looking to sue. Upon inspection, it was found that some of the lumber did not meet code and its failure was the cause of the collapse. Guess where that trail of liabilty will leed?

We had this discussion on Woodweb awhile back and it was pointed out that it will probably cost you at a least $250,000 if not more in legal fees & etc if your sued.

I don't have deep pockets full of money to pay either lawyers or insurance agents. So, in my case anyways, I'll leave the construction lumber to others to make their millions. IMHO :D

[Fla._Deadheader]

  My son applied to the Southern Pine Association?? 5 weeks ago, for the info necessary to become a certified grader. No paperwork yet???  Sound familiar???  Maybe I otter sic DanG on 'em. They are located in his neck of the woods : :
  Why couldn't all small sawmill operators become certified??? Would that not open up more markets, while reducing liability???

[Don P]

Brian's scenario gives a reason for the mill number that is on a grade stamp...trackability. Excellent point, if I pursue this every board I grade should get a unique identifying stamp.

On log homes I've gotten TPI graded logs before, so I went to their site last nite. They do lumber grading as well, and grader training. Their facility looks pretty close to my sister's house ( 8) read no motel) I sent an E-mail, will let y'all know the outcome.

[Brian_Bailey]

Below is a link to New York's code compliance alternative for unstamped construction lumber.

www.dos.state.ny.us/code/part1221.htm

They refer to American Softwood Lumber Standard PS 20-99.

Here is the link to it as the above link won't take you there: www.alsc.org/untreated_ps20_mod.htm

Each area of the country will probably have their own take on this. So it's best to check with your own state for their requirements.

[J_T]

I may be wrong bet here in Ky I sell lumber for cash. What someone does with it is their buisness.  Most anything out of a town isn't inspected yet.But I am shure bigbrother soner or later will want his cut off the top of corse. :'(

[DanG]

J-T, Ya better look out!  What I've noticed is, the counties that do not have a program, then start one up, have more stringent regs than the counties that have had their programs in place for a long time. It seems that the new ones start out with the "latest and greatest", while the older programs have let a lot of new reg trends slip by. Of course, the new National and International "Standards" will probably negate a lot of that.