Self employed again

[thecfarm]

I'd like to legally steal a product from someone,make a finished product out of it,tell the state that I could not make money at it and than have them give me money to make a profit. I feel the problem is the milk producer. They have no reason to try to make a product cheaper as long as I am there with my tax dollar to make sure they make a profit each quarter. Than I have to give money to the farmers so they can try to make a profit too. Why not take a few million from the milk producers to help out the poor farmers? We even have special lincese plates to help out the framers now. I don't mind helping,but the milk companies are still sitting high and mighty watching it all happen.

[SwampDonkey]

Gary, true enough, but input costs are higher here ....fuel, feed, animal medicine, equipment. With the high cost of quota you can't afford to be a new dairy farmer. The farmers here are struggling as well as anywhere. I think any country should protect it's food production as best it can. I think everyone would agree with that no matter where they live. Farmers usually have little to say about it because there isn't as many votes and most are an independent lot that probably couldn't agree on any issue to begin with. ;D

There are many meetings held between farmers no matter what they are growing and as soon as someone has an idea, there is another group with another and a third shooting all those ideas down. :D The processors are like a lot companies with timber licenses, everything is in their favor and it's the markets that doom them after everything else is under their thumb.

[Cedarman]

Government policies are meant to keep food prices low.  If food prices get too high the people revolt. Can't let that happen.  This goes back to at least Roman times.  Milk policies are meant to keep prices low.  I remember milk being 69 cents per gallon in the early 60's.  Would be $7.00 per gallon now considering inflation.  This is at retail level.  The government has done its job well.  Why is it that skim milk, 1%,2% and whole milk sell for the same price at the grocery?
Mark, enjoy your freedom from the clock.

[SPIKER]

I used to work dairy farm, as a hand loading feeding but wasnt in the parlor much.   There are lots of reasons and people to blame it on.   mush of the prolem lays in you cant get people to drink milk like we used to, (no wonder most kids have 15 broken bones before they get out of school.)   Kids families would rather drink pop, energy drinks & flavored water products with added vitamins ect.   The value for drinking milk is lower today than it was 30+ years ago. 
Other reasons are that back then there was an open market for buying what was needed and more importantly selling a produced item.   There was not the level of stock market (Wall Street) hedge funds buying & selling futures double & tripling the raw material costs to the farmers, grain used to be affordable, fertilizer used to be affordable fuel used to (for the most part) be affordable and most importantly Labor was affordable.   Now KIDS (under 30 crowd) wants every thing handed to them they want to set behind a computer making 100K while working 30 hrs per week.   Very few people are dedicating themselves to the family farm or even family business (unless it happens to be one that hasnt shipped to a area with foreign cheap labor.)   In the recent government stimulus junk all that was done was making our tax dollars pay to keep giant banks and hedge funds and forgien banks from loosing all their money when they bet on the latest bubble of housing prices when people finally could not afford to buy them.   many hedge funds saw this all coming and bought insurance against defaulting home loan packaged even ones they didnt own and AIG took the small insurance premiums which when it crashed AIG had to pay.   the government stepped in and gave AIG billions (and are still giving them more) to pay the hedge funds & greasy wall street banks this money they dont deserve.   Fact is a great part of this money was shipped to overseas banks and overseas hedge funds.   no effort was made to keep the money HERE which it should have done....   No effort was made to really find the truth. (finally Goldman Sacks is getting grilled.) but that is not going to matter much because the government OKed what was done...   just as they OKed getting rid of many of the rules that was set in place to protect the little guy's 401Ks such as the UP-TICK rule for short selling the market.    this was biggest part of the major crash in wallstreet but then the people who lobbied government to remove the rules established in the 30s after the great depression...   Price fixing for anything the little guy or farmer needs is easily done on the banks & wall-streets side...
Ya kinda ranty but been there done that...   

Mark M

[Jeff]

I am just letting you know, specifically, Red Oaks Lumber and gunman63  , I think that it is in poor taste when a man makes a post looking for support and encouragement from his peers here on the Forestry Forum and in return gets your uncalled for opinions. Shame on both of you. You may have opinions, but there is something you should learn before giving them at times. Its is a word. It is called tact.  It's a simple word that when put into action can make a world of difference in how a community can help one another.

Tact. Learn it. Use it.

Definitions of Tact

[gunman63]

Gary, so u dont like my take on the goverment in farming, U sound almost like one of those southern Minnesota farmers that have been in  the goverment welfare farming programs. The goverment shouldnt be in farming  welfare and thats what it is no matter what they call it, price controls, grain subsities, cheap grazing rights, and so on. maybe back in the 20's it worked, or had a need for it, but times have changed. should be all supply and demand. its a great system, and it works, doesnt need goverment involvement.
 If a dairy man, rancher, grain farmer, egg producer, pork producer, cant  put a pencil to the figures and make it work, dont do it. its no different than any other business.  I dont like any kind of goverment handouts, weather its the bum that can work but takes a monthly check, or any other free goverment programs. everyone whines about goverment spending, wants it cut,  except when it cuts into there  programs.

If  milk was $7 a gal inthe stores, id still buy it, but it ranges from $2.50 to $5 a gal up here, depending on where u buy it.

[fishpharmer]

Gunman what do you do for a living?

Seems someone of your age wouldshow more wisdom and  heed Jeff's advice. 

Apparently, Mark K has put a pencil to dairy situation.  And found it unfavorable.   I feel for you Mark K, giving up something you like doing.  I am not going to pretend to understand how the milk pricing system works.  Or the catfish pricing system.  I just know most farmers produce a commodity to sell at wholesale prices beyond our control and buy inputs at a retail price beyond our control.  Dairy products are unlike any other because they can't be held long term until the market price is more favorable, like grain or even beef cattle.  Best of luck in your logging venture Mark K.

[Gary_C]

Mark K you made the right decision. Our cows left the place some three years ago and it's good to get a life back. With a herd average like that you certainly have done well with working hard. It's just a shame that dairy farmers do not get paid for all the hard work they do 7 days a week and 365 days a year.

And Mark, you will not miss that government check you haven't been getting every month.  :

SD, parity or cost of production is not supposed to have anything to do with the price of milk. At least thats the story here in the US.

And gunman, you are not very good at listening either.

[DanG]

I agree that you've made a good move, Mark, and I think you'll be ok.  If you've been farming all your life, anything else will seem easy. ;)

[SwampDonkey]

SD, parity or cost of production is not supposed to have anything to do with the price of milk. At least thats the story here in the US.

I don't follow. Aren't exclusive or you won't be around long without help. When you receive a subsidy, the cost of production is still the same, the government just provided an additional revenue stream.

[Bro. Noble]

Well,  I've kept pretty quiet on this for a while,  but got to thinking about it while milking this morning.

One thing that might be of interest to some of you is the Government subsity money the dairymen get.  The last govt. check we got was the president's 'bailout money'  Now I'll have to admit that I didn't send it back to him,  but it wasn't enough to pay for that two weeks of feed that Mark mentioned :

Now I sometimes agree with Gunman that the Govt. should stay completely out of farming,  but I know that I'm not smart enough to forsee the effects on food prices if that were the case.  

What pithes me off is that someone would make a post to run down another member who is going through a tramatic time.  To stop milking after 37 years would have to rank with losing a family member,  divorce or maybe even marriage,  going to the rest home, etc.  It's going to be a real change in life.  I doubt Mark was pithed by the comments about complaining about milk prices.  It's pretty hard to pith off a person who has started in before daylight and worked till after dark for 37 years reguardless of how he was feeling or if he had rather be going somewhere other than the milkbarn.  A person who has probably had scores of cows go down with milkfever (maybe right in the parlor during milking) and some of the favorites not make it.  A person who has been steped on and kicked hundreds of times by a 1200 pound beast.  Being switched in the face by a dirty tail is just a minor irritation that happens all the time and comes with the territory.  No,  Gunman,  I know by your past posts that you enjoy pithing people off,  but your post was more in line with the fly that tries to crawl in a dairyman's ear while he has both handsbusy putting on the milkers------a very minor nuisance to someone who is vulnerable at the time.

Now I know that Jeff doesn't want us to get personal with Jirks that show up on the forum,  so I'll just continue to keep quiet.  Bersides,  Jeff doesn't like for me to use the word that I think you are a little pile of.

[SwampDonkey]

Around here farming and forestry are inseparable, so it's a logical move.

[Gary_C]

I don't follow. Aren't exclusive or you won't be around long without help. When you receive a subsidy, the cost of production is still the same, the government just provided an additional revenue stream.

I guess I don't follow what you are saying. Who said that US Dairy Farmers receive a subsidy? That government check is a myth that never shows up in the mailbox each month. And the government price support money does not exist 99.99 percent of the time and when it does exist it goes to the processor. Plus when the government does buy cheese, it normally is for nutrition programs, not price supports as they claim.

[Kansas]

A few thoughts on all this.
Yes, the government does have subsidies on farming. And you can certainly argue about the amount of subsidies a farmer should get. There is land payments, CRP, subsidies on crop insurance,  and ethanol. Along with loan deficiency payments in case crop prices get too low. On the other hand, look what we get for it. Walk into any grocery store. Shelves stacked with food as high as the shelves go. Those subsidies do a lot more than support farmers. The farmer is the one that puts the seed in the ground, and harvests it. Granted, they make a lot of decisions about things concerning their operation. But the farmer can't do a thing if the grain elevators, fuel delivery people, farm tire repair people, chemical applicators, fertilizer applicators, equipment dealers... and the list goes on and on. If you lose the support infrastructure because of multiple years of farmers losing large amounts of money, you lose what is the most basic and the most needed. Grain and food is also one of the few bright spots in our balance of trade.
Look at what happened to our energy situation. Back in the 70's, when the price of oil got so high, the oil industry responded by drilling. Then when the price of oil collapsed, the support industry went away. The people that provided the drilling equipment, the roughnecks etc. all went out of business or got old and retired. When the oil price came back, there were few left to get the job done. If we had had a way to provide at least some level of payment, like we do for farmers, to the people wildcatting and drilling the oil wells, think about how much better we would be off. How much less dependent on foreign  oil, much of which comes from our enemies.

To me, there are two critical areas that this country needs to be able to take care of. Food and energy. Yes, the government isn't efficient. Its not perfect. But we need to be self sustaining in both areas. We got food taken care of. We need to do the same with energy.

Mark, a couple of years ago a tornado took out my outbuildings. I gave up the cattle business. I had planned on building back. We got super busy at the mill and it just never happened.  Once in awhile I feel a few pangs of regret. Then the snow starts flying. And that takes care of it.

[Mark K]

Just came in for lunch, I'm not mad about any comments made. We put pencil to paper and decided we would sell out before our savings went dry. I've been on the farm most of my life with a few side jobs going like working on neighbors equipment, sawmilling and logging. We are still going to bring our crops in and maybe we will start back milking again in a few years. It was me and my uncle running the farm. My father was the smart one and took a outside job a few years back  :D. I know logging isn't much better for income but it is what I know and enjoy. Thanks.

[Texas Ranger]

Bro Noble, I applaud your observation.

[Warbird]

Just came in for lunch, I'm not mad about any comments made. We put pencil to paper and decided we would sell out before our savings went dry. I've been on the farm most of my life with a few side jobs going like working on neighbors equipment, sawmilling and logging. We are still going to bring our crops in and maybe we will start back milking again in a few years. It was me and my uncle running the farm. My father was the smart one and took a outside job a few years back  :D. I know logging isn't much better for income but it is what I know and enjoy. Thanks.

You are a class act, Mark.  I hope you are able to make a good living at the logging business.

[Bro. Noble]

Bro Noble, I applaud your observation.

Well thanks, TR,

I'll bet you really admire my ability to keep quiet too :D :D :D

Speaking of applaud and admire-------sure applies to Mark

[D Hagens]

I agree that you've made a good move, Mark, and I think you'll be ok.  If you've been farming all your life, anything else will seem easy. ;)

I have to agree with this post! Everything else is easy, the tough thing is that you will always miss farming. It's a way of life and nothing can compare to it. I miss it to the point that I work one day a month for a farmer just to remind me of how tough it was. 8)
Mark in one of your posts about giving the logging thing a shot you said that you enjoy doing it. If you enjoy what you do then go for it and you will make it no matter what anyone says.
Best of luck to you!

[gunman63]

if i offended any one, im sorry, But if u go back and look at my first post,its was in response to Warbirds  wanting the goverment to wake up and see what the farmers are going thru, NOT the man quiting milking cows, as he said he put a pencil to it and cant do it. The goverment doesnt belong in farming, I just didnt say dairy.  yes theres a long list of people  that have jobs because of farmers, ranchers,  but that is true in all business, not just ag.  

[DanG]

There is a lot said about "the patience of Job" but we probably should use "the patience of a dairy farmer" as a compliment more often.  I got a feeling that Mark has been stepped on, kicked, switched in the face, and otherwise insulted enough that he doesn't even feel anything from a few words. :D  My Grandpa was a dairyman back before times got tough for them, and I could see that it was plenty tough to start with.

Mark, I know you're gonna miss those little moments when you can just step back and gaze at your herd, and just appreciate what you have.  But, the first morning you wake up to minus 20, and you've come down with a bad cold, you're gonna shore be glad there ain't no cows to milk! 8) 8) 8) :D

[Dave Shepard]

Regardless of any gov intervention, welfare, whatever you want to call it, the price of milk rarely comes anywhere near the cost of production. Even when it was in the low 20's in '07, fuel and fert was at insane levels. Typically, any measures put into place to throw the farmers a bone is just that, a tease to make you stay in business just a little longer.

To put the whole thing in perspective, we must remember the joke about the 90 year old dairy farmer who won $10 million in the lotto. When asked what he'd do with the money, he replied "I 'spect I'll just keep farming 'til the money runs out".

[stonebroke]

Mark, You should run a few beefers. It will be super easy compared to dairy farming and you can still make a few bucks.

Stonebroke

[SwampDonkey]

Gary, the cost of production is based on the input costs. Subsidies, if you get them - not everyone does, are not production costs, they are income. You can have help going out the ying yang, it still costs $X+$Y+$Z  etc... to produce something.

[Cedarman]

During the 80's I had a custom hay mowing and baling operation that went for about 6 months of the year.  I loved it.  Nothing like mowing that first field in the spring and getting that last field up before the rains came in the fall.  I loved it.  I remember thinking at the time that I would love doing this forever.  Even the stress of fighting the rain clouds and getting the hay wet.  Then in 83 I bought a WM.  Slowly over 5 years I did more sawing and still did the hay.  But in 92 it was decision time.  I just about quit haying except for a few  jobs and by 96 or so sold the beef herd and my brother permanently borrowed my hay equipment.
DanG, I remember that first year of not doing hay and listening to the thunder roll in and then the rain come down and the warm feeling I had that I did not have hay down.
So Mark, I hope you get that warm feeling of laying in bed a little longer and enjoying a few minutes before you get up and head out to cut a few trees.
I do get a twinge when I go by a new mown field and smell the fresh cut hay.  Ahhh!