How to unflood Saw/Water in Gas

[tbrickner]

Hi All,

I suspect one of my saws is flooded.  Any thoughts on what to do with a flooded saw.


I may also have some water in the 10%ethanol 90% fuel gasoline which is causing my saw problems.  Any thoughts on how to get the saw started after pouring the old gas out?

Thanks,
Tom

[Al_Smith]

It's relatively simple .First pull the plug ,dump the fuel then pull the saw over until you get all the fuel blown out .Install the plug, new fuel and start the saw .

Now then if it is full of water you might try shooting WD-40 through the carb .The solvent will absorb the water .WD-40 by the way stands for "water displacement number 40 formula " which they actually found by accident .Trivia 101 .

[tbrickner]

Thanks Al that is very helpful.  I'll let you know how things work.

Tom

[Stephen1]

On the same topic, always use a fuel stabilizer in your gas for small engines, there is a problem with ethanol in our fuel,the small engines do not like the ethanol as it attracts moisture, I use stabil, and in my lawn mower, honda engine I use gas line antifreeze....When my lawnmower runs rough i put in the gasline antifreeze, within seconds it's running smooth again...I have a surplus box in the barn

[Al_Smith]

If my saws have sat for any length of time I just dump the old fuel .It goes into my old tractor as it really doesn't care it will run on anything .

Another thing to bare in mind is that the ethanol will cause the carb innards to get funky .This just requires periodic replacements of the soft parts such as diaphragms and check valves .The diaphragms for instance will distort and either starve the saw for fuel or flood the dang things by not shutting off the fllow during pulsations of the impulse from the crankcase .

The problem arises because the carb innards are made of a material called buna-n which doesn't do real well in the presence of alcohol .It gets stiff as a bone after a while .The newer repair kits are using slightly different materials but they still go bad in time .

The bad thing is it's just a general nuisance but the good thing is the kits are inexpensive and fairly  simple to install .

[Warbird]

Yeah.  I'm going to have to learn how to rebuild the carbs on my 2 Stihls for that very reason.  :-\

[boobap]

From my understanding, WD-40 = water displacement, yes. 40 = 40th attemp to get it right. I also heard it was the Department of the Navy that developed it. It is kinda surprising that it would take the DoN 40 attempts to get this right  ;) . Millions of dollars to create it as well I am sure... :-\

[jteneyck]

It is kinda surprising that it would take the DoN 40 attempts to get this right 

As a guy who spent over 30 years as a R&D engineer, developing a new formula in only 40 attempts would be hard to believe.  400; now that I would believe. 

As for the water in the gas, I agree - use fuel stabilizer, and, when in doubt throw it out !

[Stephen1]

From my understanding, WD-40 = water displacement, yes. 40 = 40th attemp to get it right. I also heard it was the Department of the Navy that developed it. It is kinda surprising that it would take the DoN 40 attempts to get this right  ;) . Millions of dollars to create it as well I am sure... :-\

No it was a Boeing development,(doesn't mean that that the navy didn't pay them though) to spray the parts that had to be left outside in the moist air of the north-west, it didn't work as good as they would have liked,as I have noticed on my tools, when I used to have an unheated shop.

[Al_Smith]

I don't know if will still work but at one time WD-40 used propane as a propellant .Which means you could use it as starting  fluid .

Regular ether would be hard on say a two cycle but Wd-40 didn't seem to harm them .Now I know some might think it stupid to use any type starter fluid but let me tell you ,get the bar oil in the fuel tank some time and then try to start it .I didn't do it but my dad managed to twice all within the same week to boot .

The poor old Mac PM 610 blew smoke for 5 minutes after it finally fired up but none the worse for the wear .

[John Mc]

On the same topic, always use a fuel stabilizer in your gas for small engines, there is a problem with ethanol in our fuel,the small engines do not like the ethanol as it attracts moisture,

Just remember, there is nothing out there that will solve all of the problems created by blending ethanol with gas... if there was, it would just be included in the gas formulation, and a good bit of the stink everyone is raising about ethanol (and rightly so) would die out.

I use stabil, and in my lawn mower, honda engine I use gas line antifreeze....When my lawnmower runs rough i put in the gasline antifreeze, within seconds it's running smooth again...I have a surplus box in the barn

Most of the folks I've talked to, and the reading I've done, seems to indicate that the right stabilizer will help with most of the problems. The wrong stabilizer will make some of the problems worse. Some stabilizers contain alcohol in one for or another, as does most gasline antifreeze. The solution to ethanol's problems generally does not include adding more alcohol to the fuel. Stabil makes two kinds of stabilizer. I avoid the red stuff with ethanol-gas blends. Use their blue "Marine Formula" instead. "StarTron" is another decent fuel stabilizer for use with ethanol blends.

John Mc

[Stephen1]

Most of the folks I've talked to, and the reading I've done, seems to indicate that the right stabilizer will help with most of the problems. The wrong stabilizer will make some of the problems worse. Some stabilizers contain alcohol in one for or another, as does most gasline antifreeze. The solution to ethanol's problems generally does not include adding more alcohol to the fuel. Stabil makes two kinds of stabilizer. I avoid the red stuff with ethanol-gas blends. Use their blue "Marine Formula" instead. "StarTron" is another decent fuel stabilizer for use with ethanol blends.

John Mc

[/quote]
Thanks John, I'll look for the blue stuff when I head south of th eborder next month, I have not seen the "StarTron" up here yet.
Stephen1

[tbrickner]

AL Smith,

Thanks for the info.  I did what you said and that probably helped.

What I think was the problem was water in the ethanol since we have been having crazy weather.  I threw in a new batch of gas/oil mix with the startron stabilizer.

I was able to reset all the carb adjustments and the unit works fine.

Curses to that water loving ethanol.  Ahhhhh!!!!!

By the way has anyone had any luck with the Stihl HP ultra two cycle.  I was using this and felt that it may have broken down and caused some of the problems since it is supposed to be biodegradeable.  Any thoughts on this?

Tom

[Rocky_J]

What color bottle is the Stihl two cycle you have? Their orange bottle stuff is rather mediocre and can lead to extensive crud buildup in the exhaust since it doesn't burn very cleanly. However their synthetic mix oil in the white bottles is excellent stuff.

[JohnG28]

I use the HP Ultra synthetic, light gray or off white bottle, no issues as of yet.  Seems to be very good.

[tbrickner]

Hey Rocky,

Its a white bottle with a gray lable and orange Stihl rectangular logo.

Tom

[John Mc]

I've been using the Stihl HP Ultra. It's in a gray/silver bottle with a light gray label. Is this as good as the white bottle stuff? I've seen the orange bottle Stihl oil around, but don't recall seeing any of the white bottle stuff lately.

I hadn't noticed the "biodegradable" label on the HP Ultra bottles. Now I'm worried about shelf life.

Can someone tell me what the difference is between the white and the gray one?

Rocky, about a months or so ago, you posted on here somewhere that Echo sells a decent synthetic or semi-synthetic mix oil. I haven't tried it yet, but I can buy it in larger bottles (pint, I think?) for a lot less than the Stihl or Husky synthetics. Do you think it's worth trying? I don't mind the extra expense of the Husky or Stihl syntheic oils if I'm actually getting something extra from them. However, if the Echo oil is going to protect my saws just as well, I'd rather save the money.

If it makes a difference, I'm mostly running a Jonsered 2152 and a Husky 357XP, cutting hardwoods. I've been running premium non-ethanol gas up to now, but sometime over the next few months, all I'll be able to get in our area is E10 gas.

John Mc

[JohnG28]

Thats the same thing Im getting JohnMc, have been running that mix with 93 octane E10 gas, along with Stabil, no issues so far.  I hadnt noticed anything about it being biodegradable either.

[John Mc]

Most of the folks I've talked to, and the reading I've done, seems to indicate that the right stabilizer will help with most of the problems. The wrong stabilizer will make some of the problems worse. Some stabilizers contain alcohol in one for or another, as does most gasline antifreeze. The solution to ethanol's problems generally does not include adding more alcohol to the fuel. Stabil makes two kinds of stabilizer. I avoid the red stuff with ethanol-gas blends. Use their blue "Marine Formula" instead. "StarTron" is another decent fuel stabilizer for use with ethanol blends.

John Mc

Thanks John, I'll look for the blue stuff when I head south of th eborder next month, I have not seen the "StarTron" up here yet.
Stephen1

Here's a link to some info on gas additives and stabilizers:
http://www.fuel-testers.com/is_gas_additive_safe_with_e10_list.html

It shows which ones have alcohol in them (which can make the ethanol problem worse). Other links on that site mention that use of a fuel system/ engine cleaner is usually not necessary with ethanol gas... the ethanol is an excellent solvent and should keep the system clean as-is. Some stabilizers will help with some of the problems with ethanol. None will solve all of the problems.

Another useful link from the same site with some facts and fiction on E10:
   http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_fact_fiction_and_reality.html

John Mc

[bandmiller2]

WD-40 changed the propellent to make it non flamible for the pilgrims,not worth a hoot for starting engines now.Frank C.