woodmizer outriggers

[northwoods1]

I have an LT40 model woodmizer. Is it just me or does anyone else think the outrigger setup as it comes from the factory leaves a lot to be desired? I'd have a hard time thinking of many things to be critical about when it comes to this mill I really love. I see they offer that fine adjust outrigger system for extra money but would it really be that difficult to have all the mills set up with a decent system? Maybe I'm off base but using that iron rod to lift and lower the mill seems kind of goofy and most of the time the outriggers are not even making equal contact to the mill can move around. And I fine it a particular pain in the rear when trying to lift up the outriggers when moving the mill, first you have to stick the rod in the outrigger and take the weight off the pin, pull the pin out and then somehow pick up the outrigger when there is no place to even grab on to it. Guess it just puzzles me a bit why they chose to go with this particular system. tc

[ronwood]

northwoods1,

I would say that the outriggers on my Woodmizer is my biggest complaint also. Been trying to come up with a way to use the existing outriggers and make those adjustable. For now I utilize shims of various thickness.

Ron

[bugdust]

I'm in total agreement with each of you. The outriggers that are accessed from inside the frame are a royal pain. I've actually thought about bolting my own screw jacks to the frame to replace the original. The fine adjustable would be much easier, but at the time I could not justify the cost. :'( They say hind sight is 20-20.

[terrifictimbersllc]

The one on the inside 2nd from the front is the worst but close to the 2nd from the back.  Don't lose the SS bar in the snow unless you have a metal detector.  Also don't drive off with it laying on the front of the mill next to the top guide rail.  If you do, leave your window open, so you can hear it fall off on the highway after about 5 miles. Don't ask me how I know this. Better yet get a spare and keep it in the truck of course you can lose that too.  8)

[D Hagens]

 
Hi guys, I just watched a vid of an LT 50 with fine adjustments, looks pretty slick and simple.
So I can better understand the way your outriggers are and what the differences between the old and new are can someone explain?

[Chuck White]

TT;  I did exactly that last year.
I left the jacking handle laying on the mill somewhere and then drove off.
Needless to say, I lost it even though we back tracked looking for it!  It was only a 1½ mile move.
In the meantime, I was sawing for a neighbor and was telling him about it and he said there was one like what I was describing leaning by the door on the outside of his garage and I could have it if I wanted to stop and pick it up!
I was surprised, it was a Wood-Mizer jack handle.
Well, about 2 weeks later I found the original laying in the sand next to the road!
So, now I have two.
I bought one for my FIL's mill about 5 years ago and at that time it cost $18.00
$18.00 for a 22 inch piece of steel.

[Qweaver]

I don't like the outriggers either.  They are a RPITA.  I'mgoing to add a trailer jack to the front to help make them easier to adjust.

[terrifictimbersllc]

TT;  I did exactly that last year.
I left the jacking handle laying on the mill somewhere and then drove off.
Needless to say, I lost it even though we back tracked looking for it!  It was only a 1½ mile move.
In the meantime, I was sawing for a neighbor and was telling him about it and he said there was one like what I was describing leaning by the door on the outside of his garage and I could have it if I wanted to stop and pick it up!
I was surprised, it was a Wood-Mizer jack handle.
Well, about 2 weeks later I found the original laying in the sand next to the road!
So, now I have two.
I bought one for my FIL's mill about 5 years ago and at that time it cost $18.00
$18.00 for a 22 inch piece of steel.

i've stopped to take it off the front of the mill twice after leaving home.  seems to stay there pretty well.   also heard it fall off on I-95 going 55 mph and was able to pull over and walk back to get it. now keep it on the floorboard next to driver seat.

[isawlogs]

 I have a '93 lt40HD they outriggers are and have been a pain since then , but in there difence , they are a step ahead of some that I have seen/used on other mills. That beeing said , I sure dont understand not having anything better for that long.

[northwoods1]

I bought one for my FIL's mill about 5 years ago and at that time it cost $18.00
$18.00 for a 22 inch piece of steel.

When I first saw that arrangement they had with the iron rod I thought, well that sure is going to get lost or forgotten somewhere and I bet it won't take long! It amazes me I haven't lost mine yet or drove off with it sitting on the mill. And it doesn't even seem necessary, I mean I can't understand who thought of that system and what are the possible advantages? Simple, easy, cheap?... I wouldn't describe it as any of those. What would really be nice is if they were infinitely adjustable. And easy to raise and lower with no parts to loose. I don't remember how much the quick adjust option cost but I remember it seemed kind of pricey to me.

[wwsjr]

I have an LT40 with Remote on front. I found it too heavy for me to lift and hookup to truck without help. I mounted a screw jack by the hitch so I did not have to lift, I am old and my back is not what it once was. To setup, I position the mill, place 4' level on rail, lower the hitch end slightly below level. Move to the rear, drop jacks and snug up with the bar. I try to always carry a few 1" and 1 1/2" square blocks to use on ground to even up the jacks. Sometimes I use a small square point shovel to remove dirt. After the rear jacks are set, I go back to front, jack up to slightly above level and repeat the same for the front jacks. I then usually raise the screw jack until pressure is off. I have found this method works real well for me. I have never lost a bar out of the holder on the loading side rear jack when the jack is raised for travel.   

[beenthere]

...................$18.00 for a 22 inch piece of steel.

Why buy it, rather than just make one? 

[terrifictimbersllc]

It's stainless steel for some reason, maybe it's stiffer? 

[Slabs]

The bar is probably "drill rod".  I don't really know what it is but I have some and it's very strong.  I don't know anything short of drill rod that would substitute.  It's available from Enco-3 feet for $11.03(5/8")

Yes, I find the operation of the jacks difficult but that may be from not having to practice but a couple of times every few years.  They are probably the most durable jacks made.  Indestructable would be an understatement.  As for coupling to tow vehicle, the front jack does well for a tongue jack if all the others have been stowed.

Cuss 'em and enjoy 'em.

[isawlogs]

I lost mine a long time ago, I did not call to see how much to replace the thing as I knew that it would more than likely be lost again. I took out my connecting bar from my high steel tool belt and used it.
  It is a tapared pointy bar with the other end being flat to use as a pinch/pry bar the pointy end was used to put in the holes of the beam and the colum as you where doing the steel erecting. With the bar in the hole , you could get a bolt out and into the other bolt hole and after tightening you went on the the next connection the crane brought up.
  It is still the same connecting bar that I took out of my belt 15 years ago that I use today.
 

[backwoods sawyer]

I have an LT40 with Remote on front. I found it too heavy for me to lift and hookup to truck without help. I mounted a screw jack by the hitch so I did not have to lift, I am old and my back is not what it once was. To setup, I position the mill, place 4' level on rail, lower the hitch end slightly below level. Move to the rear, drop jacks and snug up with the bar. I try to always carry a few 1" and 1 1/2" square blocks to use on ground to even up the jacks. Sometimes I use a small square point shovel to remove dirt. After the rear jacks are set, I go back to front, jack up to slightly above level and repeat the same for the front jacks. I then usually raise the screw jack until pressure is off. I have found this method works real well for me. I have never lost a bar out of the holder on the loading side rear jack when the jack is raised for travel.   

On my list of things to do is similar what wwsjr has done. Since the hydraulic box is right there, I plan to add a bang cylinder right beside the front jack. I have wallered out the holes in several of the jacks from using the bar to lift and lower the jacks. When the holes get wallered out the jacks get harder to set up as well. These jack are fine for a semi stationary mill but as far as for a completely portable outfit they fell way short of my expectations. I drive wedges under the legs to fine tune the adjustment, lost 3 wedges on one job. That was the only time that I have lost any. I keep the bar in the front jack so it is handy as I start with the front jack and end with the front jack.   

[AvT]

I just got some quotes on a couple of Woodmizer mills and this is what I'd have to pay for the outrigger option.  After reading LARRYs Timberking B2000 thread I'm seriously looking at what it would cost to get one of those babys up here.  If I get one, Timberking will owe Larry commission

FAO-KIT SET OF SIX HAND CRANK FINE ADJUST OUTRIGGER JACK LEGS $1,049.00 CAD

[DGK]

I am so tired of those jacks and setting up/taking down, that I am planning to go stationary.

[Dan_Shade]

the outriggers are a little bit of a hassle, but I don't find them overly cumbersome.

A trick I learned somewhere along the way (I think from Marty Parsons) was to use two shingles to compensate for any fine tuning that is desired.

I have found if you use the weight of the sawhead to set the saw up, it makes a very quick job of setting up the mill.  In fact, I can have both tires off the ground (if I want) and the mill set up level in about 20 minutes or so from getting to a job site.

I think a lot of folks get frustrated with the legs because they don't use the sawhead as counterweight for the frame.

[Dan_Shade]

Here's how I set the mill up.

1) drop leg at the tongue

2) unhook from truck, possibly leaving safety chains attached depending on terrain.

3) start mill and let it warm up

4) walk around the saw and  drop the rest of the legs without trying to make the pin click into a hole

5) get the bar and make the forward two of the mid section click into holes

6) raise up the front leg by one or two holes so it's a few inches off the ground

7) run saw head to tongue end of the saw.

***This is the trick***
Since I raised the front leg by a hole or two, and the sawhead is over the tongue, the tail of the saw is "floating"  I go back and level up the mill side to side with the back 2 posts of the 4 midsections (not the single one at the end of the mill).

8) I drop the back post and then raise it up a hole or two so it is a few inches off the ground

9) run the saw head to the back, making the front of the mill float

10) set the front two legs of the mid section so that the mill is solid

11) run the saw head to about the middle of the frame.  At this point, the 4 center legs should all be solid on the ground (which may take shimming the legs)

12) set the front leg so it is solid

13) set the back leg so it is solid

14) lower lift arms

15) start sawing

[Brucer]

The original legs are simple, reliable, and low maintenance. Don't forget the original WM mills were manual mills without all the bells and whistles we see nowadays.

Before I move the mill, I always make sure I have a bunch of shims -- 1/8", 1/4", 1/4". etc. That makes it easier to level the mill. Use a system similar to the one Dan Shade uses and setting up the mill becomes straightforward. There's a storage slot for the handle on one of the back outriggers -- so use it! Before I put the mill on the road, I do a walk-around, making sure the outriggers are all up, the clamp mechanism is up, the safety chains attached, the lights all working, and the handle in its slot.

I've seen the second generation fine-adjust outriggers in action and they are truly simple. I don't move my mill around much these days so there wasn't much point in adding them. But I did replace the front and back outriggers with FAO's so I could fine tune the front-back level without messing with shims..

So a set of FAO's costs $1000 extra. Have you noticed that the price of the mills is dropping? Perhaps they should have kept the price the same and made the FAO's standard.

[Chuck White]

the outriggers are a little bit of a hassle, but I don't find them overly cumbersome.

A trick I learned somewhere along the way (I think from Marty Parsons) was to use two shingles to compensate for any fine tuning that is desired.

I have found if you use the weight of the sawhead to set the saw up, it makes a very quick job of setting up the mill.  In fact, I can have both tires off the ground (if I want) and the mill set up level in about 20 minutes or so from getting to a job site.

I think a lot of folks get frustrated with the legs because they don't use the sawhead as counterweight for the frame.

Exactly right Dan!
It is 10 times easier to setup if you use the saw-head as a counterweight.
In other words, if you're adjusting the front, move the head to the rear, if you're adjusting the back, move the head to the front.
Makes it a whole lot simpler. 

[woodbowl]

Wow! I don't think that I have ever been so amazed at the type of response from a WM topic. Most of the dislikes mentioned here are the exact reasons I do like the WM jacks. I recognize the annoying features stated, but those disadvantages are actually advantages to me. I do this for a living, setting up and taking down several time each week and I don't think I could ask for a better jack system. No, I don't have the fine tune jacks. I don't shovel dirt from under the jacks and I've never lost a bar. (knock on logs) The jacks are quick, easy, strong and simple. The only problem I can see is the one mentioned by wwsjr. I too have had some back trouble in the past and that speaks for itself. A piece of pipe used as an extention handle on the bar solves those problems.

The way I set up is as follows. If on a hillside, the mast should be reasonably plumb so I'm looking for a dip to drive the high wheel into. Driving onto a 2X on the low wheel usually levels things pretty good. Don't want to dig at all if possible. I disconnect from the truck and set the hitch jack with the beam level, sometimes one hole less. (depending on how fast I want the head to return) I bring the head to the hitch end and jack up the 2 back jacks raising the mill, but not clearing the wheels off the ground. The jacks are either too loose or too tight you say? Well of course, it happens every time. Now, take that bar you've been cussin' and with a side swing, glance the top of the dirt directly under the jack. Drop the jack and glance some more if needed. Be carefull or you will knock out too much. Backfill dirt will settle more.

So how do you raise the mill without clearing the wheels off the ground and not have the top of the jack sticking up over the bed rail? After years of creating new hemiroids  to clear the wheels off the ground, and realizing that there was no situation that would require me to use those extra few inches, I cut the top of the jacks off. I was so iffy about it that I would only cut off one hole to try for a while untill I found what worked for me.

Then I move the head to the back of the mill, drop the #3 jack (from the hitch end) and set it firm without tilting the bed backward. Drop #2 jack and let float if the logs are small or set it if they are large. I'm usually leveled and ready to run within 5 minutes before disconnecting from the truck unless there are unusual circumstances. Since I don't clear my wheels from the ground, settling is more obvious and I tweek when needed.

Is this the way WM says to do it? No. In my ever changing situations with terrains and soils, this is what works best for me. Without a doubt, concrete and firm ground with raised wheels, offer the most rigid and non adjusting setup.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Wow! I don't think that I have ever been so amazed at the type of response from a WM topic.

Yes it's been an interesting exchange with lots of opinions.  Don't know if it's true but I heard once that one of the highest number of responses ever received by Ann Landers concerned the topic of which way the toilet paper roll ought to be placed in the holder!!!   Maybe this topic is like that one!!! :D :D :D

[isawlogs]

  I am of those that think that the roll should come up and around and the sheet face outwards.