sawdust run engine

[Al_Smith]

 :D No I wasn't saying it's stupid or anything . I mean what the hay I'm building a sawmill like I'm going to be the next Georgia Pacific  or something .

I was just pointing out when you are dealing with combustable gas you take a chance of blowing your self up if you don't know what you're doing .You know there's more than one moonshine wantabe that's got more than he bargained for .

[Paul_H]

We call woodgas explosions "sneezes" or "puffbacks" 

[Al_Smith]

Well I've had those "puff backs " but it was caused by the combination of pickled eggs and beer . Not quit enough to raise the covers but enough to make your eyes water . :D

[Lee McKnight]

Hi Al, everyone,

It is perfectly reasonable to be concerned with safety, and we are.

But: Summerhill's process is inherently safer than handling liquid fossil fuels, ie oil and gas, kerosene etc.

And: our fuel does NOT explode - it is 'explosible' under specific conditions, which we can control very precisely.

The problems you describe have never once happened in our years of development of our technology.

So: no, Summerhill's process is not at all the same as a few folks running cars on logs, or even on sawdust.

And it is NOT the same as 'gasification.'

It is a new patent-pending combustion physics, investigated by several years of research at Cornell University with NYSERDA support; related work has been done with NYSERDA support by Summerhill; Summerhill is part of US National Science Foundation, Kaufman Foundation, Chancellor's Leadership grant, and Syracuse Center of Excellence in Energy and Environmental Systems research work at Syracuse Unievrsity.

And did I mention that the President of SUNY-ESF has been on our advisory board since founding?

Anyway, I don't mean to be mysterious but we will have more to announce as to the first large-scale commercial Summerhill powder fuel production plant - by end of February.

You all will be invited to take a road trip to check it out...if interested, please block out first week in April for now.

Since some of you if you so chose could be next in line to be not Georgia Pacific necessarily, but your own local energy producers...which we promise is supersafe...if you carefully follow our specifications. 

Meaning: Summerhill-certified is safer than liquid fuels, try to do what we do on your own - well good luck to you and yeah be sure to buy plenty of insurance ; ).

best,

Lee McKnight

PS: I will try to check in on the board here every week or so, and as noted will share specific news with you all on our demo plans at the first 'Summerhill-certified' commercial powder fuel production facility, by end of month.

[jdtuttle]

Anyway, I don't mean to be mysterious but we will have more to announce as to the first large-scale commercial Summerhill powder fuel production plant - by end of February.

You all will be invited to take a road trip to check it out...if interested, please block out first week in April for now

Is this demonstration at Cornell? I live 20 minutes away & would be interested.
jim

[Lee McKnight]

Hi,

Interest and inquiries are welcome.

Our prototype burners can be seen in operation, by appointment, very near Ithaca.  Please email me at lee.mcknight@summerhillbiomass.com to make arrangements. 

The commercial-scale powder plant's location is still confidential.  I am hoping by end of February to be able to say on the board the planned time/place for the public demonstration or our system, ie the burner and the powder plant together demonstarting whole supply chain from - biomass to high-efficiency, low-emission, heat. We would be doing a press release on that too, but you guys will hear it first.  Running a - race car - on our fuel is a side flashy project we are working on as well, but not first commercial priority for us.

As to the undisclosed location of the commercial powder fuel plant, right now I will only hint that if you're based near Ithaca, New York...you should plan on a longer road trip to see the plant, in April.

[Al_Smith]

Firstly regarding this process which I'm sure is proprietary and I'll respect that .Not a bad idea .

However from a perspective of BTU's the same chemical componets in crude oil ,peat,coal or sawdust are  basically the same .The extraction methods are what differ.

[Bart May]

Here's some interesting Gasification History and Basics


http://youtubes.5aa5.com/viewroqsk3Tkd4g&feature=youtube_gdata_player.html

[Al_Smith]

I think they are all neat ideas .Both the older style of gasification and whatever this Summerhills' deal is .It's doubtfull all combined would account for more than a fraction of 1 percent of energy needs but never the less an option for some .

For example tree trimmers or arborists if that term is more suitable get tons of chips which  for all intents just end up in a land fill or are recycled into mulch .Under the right conditions they could provide a means for stationary  power or at least a source of heating .Chips as they are aren't the most user friendlty to get much more than a smoldering fire out of at best . Feasability of course would vary depending on the situation .

You know like trimmers . If they just got enough to pay for the gas money and time to pay the help in most cases would be tickled pink to have an outlet for chips other than a land fill .

[Lee McKnight]

Hi Al,

First re BTU's...whatever number you want we can build to, ie 500k, 1m, 3m...and up.  Or down.

Second, no we are not same BTU's as others, we are - better. Because our combustion process is more complete ie less waste and residual materials that aren;'t fully combusted are left; everything but the ash combusts in 1/100- 5/100ths of a second, so the nasty stuff created by otehr slower burning processes, isn't a problem.

In terms of BTUs from a set amount of biomass that is only marginally different I admit, but economics are more attractive if we don't need to clean up messes which are never made. 

And, at scale, the process could certainly provide much more than a fraction of 1% of energy needs.  There's way more waste biomass available than you are thinking of. Yes leaves, branches twigs etc from backyard chippers can be processed in to fuel; but so can bagasse from ethanol plants; and manure...and municipal sewage.  Ok there's a higher ash content there...but if mixed with other forms of biomass it's a fine fuel; instead of a pollution problem. Anyway, about 7 billion people on the planet = a lot of sewage; which is just one source of fuel for Summerhill-certified energy systems. In due course.

Big secret demo event is pushed back til May/June...of first ever commercial scale power fuel production plant + Summerhill burners. We got VCs flying in from Brazil already confirmed for that...and you know they got a lot of bionmass in Brazil ; ) Not to worry we don't need to strip the Amazon, they have plenty of agricultural waste already from ethanol plants. 

Anyway, this indeed is a very big thing, and I welcome all of your interest in perhaps being early adopters when we are ready to roll.  But first plan on your road trip to - an undisclosed location - in May/June.  (We will disclose more info as soon as we can - in fact look for a press release next week; though we won;t yet say specifics on the may/June event. )

best, and thanks everyone for feedback and interest,

Lee McKnight

[JSNH]

Any news on  the demo???

[Al_Smith]

 
Well any "alternative " is just something kind of out of the norm .As such while it might be feasable for some it would not be expediant for others .

Low head hydro would work great in the PNW or east coast  mountains but wouldn't  be a grand plan in the center of Kansas where the ground is flat as a pancake .Wind power would not be so great in NYC .

If a person had access to sawdust and chips by the tons this gasifying thing would be a plan .Again though it's a limited alternative .Like my buddies with waste oil burners to heat their shops .Cheap yes but if everyone did it there wouldn't be enough used oil to go around .

On a larger scale alternative thing ,they are going to build a garbage/bio burner power house locally and dump it on the grid for electrical power .They've  been fooling with for 10 years though, politics evidently.I'd think it would be a better alternative than digging a big hole commonly called a land fill .At least get something usable from the stuff other than taking a thousand years to rot up in the ground .

Now that brings up something in my ramblings .I don't recall it such a big deal when 90 percent of the people had a 55 gallon drum in the back yard they burned their trash in .Of course there weren't the plastics but that can be recycled into astro turf if nothing else .Why do they always have to complicate the simple ? ???

[jpgreen]

No one shoe fits all.

You have to tailor your rig to your recourses obviously. I would run Hydro in a heartbeat, but the creek runs below our property. Not enough constant reliable wind.

For our needs it's woodgas and solar PV panels all the way, since we live in the forest.

As Rush coined, "Rugged Individualism". Where we are headed, and what we must become to survive in the USA.  For *DanG sure no .gov waco liberal, or career politician is going to save the day...  :

[Ron57]

  What type of alternative depends on what is available cheap or free.In the area that I am from a lot of people burn scrap wood for heat in OWBs. There are a lot of cabinet shops that produce fine dry dust and it doesnt make good bedding for livestalk because it is dusty, but for this you would have to compete with the wood pellet mills that pay a premium for the dry dust.
    It seems that woodgas to produce electric, heat, fuel the truck, and cook with pretty much covers all energy needs.Unless I had a good stream for hydro electric, but living in Indiana some times you dont know which way the water is going to run or a vein of coal in my back yard.
  Just some thoughts.     Ron Lemler
 

[Al_Smith]

The Hooser is somewhat like the buckeye in that the lay of the land changes drastically within .Portions of the north are flat as a pancake while southerly they had to stack the acres on end to fit them in .

:D I always joked that the wind  coming across north eastern Indiana picks up speed before it reachs north western Ohio .

[Lee McKnight]

Any news on  the demo???

Hi folks, sorry to go offline for a while. As you may have guessed, the vagaries of start-ups, and the complexities of negotiating joint venture agreements, have delayed things. The JV agreement is close to final, when it is final and I can talk about you all will be among the very first to know.

That facility is still incomplete but coming along.

We are now calling Summerhill fuel 'dry flowable fuel.' So yeah you heard the term here first.

A site for a second dry flowable fuel production plant and dry flowable fuel energy plant, possibly up to 2mw, is now under consideration. As soon as we can say something more there we will.

Of course in due time we will have solutions scaled differently but at the start we need to focus our efforts on these community/region-scaled systems; there will be plenty of opportuntieis for various partners in the supply chain and we continue to welcome all of your interest. Espcially f some of you out there are accredited investors and want your own - dry flowable fuel plant; and Summerhill exclusive license to service your home region.  :D

best,

Lee McKnight