Alternate Pricing Method, "By the Piece?"

[davemartin88]

I have a portable operation and have always charged by the hour since most of my jobs are small, lasting only 3 or 4 hours at a time and pretty easy to estimate. I have a large (for me since it will take a number of days) job coming up and the customer is uncomfortable with an hourly rate so trying to work out another approach. Read a few other posts, especially the one from POSTONLT40HD about pricing. When calculating bf, do you use the gross amount of lumber for the logs before they are milled or the finished product? May be a silly question but not clear to me and not sure I want to track finished product? It would be relatively easy to get a bf calculation on each log as we start.

I'll be milling freshly cut, yellow pine, 12 to 16 foot lengths, 15-22" diameters, with the owner bringing the log to the mill and helping with the offload. Everything to be cut to two by 6/8/10, whatever we can get. Intention is to use the wood for general farm use, outbuildings, etc. after drying. Owner hasn't done this before and is comparing his costs to what he can buy finished material for locally, obviously expecting to be way under this without counting his own labor. He is suggesting we price based on the number of pieces of each type we get so he will know how much he's paying for each 2x4 or whatever? I'll think it through but not against the idea. I suppose I could take the price sheet for lumber from a local yard and come up with something?

We've agreed to cut 8 or 10 logs first to get a better idea of what the yield and cutting rate will be, this test to priced at my normal, hourly rate. Then we can step back and go from there. He has been told by a forester that he has about 7-10K bf of lumber ready to be harvested? The job is only 15 minutes from my house and I'll be able to leave the mill on site each day so only one set up.

Thoughts on the alternate approach and the bf calculation, thanks in advance.

[ladylake]

 Seems the same as pricing by the bf for the boards cut. It depends on how fast you cut and what you charge per bf or piece to how much you will make per hour. I charge by the hour but would make quite a bit more at .25 per bf.    Steve

[terrifictimbersllc]

Of course, you can do whatever you want so long as you both agree.  But most here who are charging by the board foot use the content of the finished lumber.  There are association rules for measuring bf so it's probably best to adhere to these and if not have those as your exceptions, so you're not open to criticism about how you measure.  A 12 foot 1x12 is 12 bf.  An 8 foot 2x4 is 5.3 bf.  An 8 foot 1.5x3.5 is 3.5 bf. However, some here charge that as a full 2x4 and that's an example of doing whatever you want so long as you both agree. It's also an example of special rules you might want to make otherwise what if your customer asks you to cut 3/4" boards, tomato stakes, or 3/4 x 3/4 pen blanks for that matter.  Most here would call anything under 1" lumber still 1".   And hardwoods cut at 1-1/8", those are 1" too.  Lengths are rounded down to nearest foot.  I round down widths to nearest 1/2" if charging by bf which I rarely do.  There are many other exceptions and details in board measurements but the best rule in my opinion is to be generous.   You can charge by log scale too as you suggest, but you might want to agree on what your smallest size boards are or otherwise he might be looking at the slab pile thinking some of his boards are still in there.  One of our chiefs here has recently made a good case for bf vs. hourly sawing including sawyer's reward for high productivity and it's a good investment to establish how you do volume-based sawing.

[davemartin88]

Thanks for the replies so far. I had originally understood that charging by the bf was generally for
the finished lumber but wording in a couple of posts I read had me second guessing. Does anyone reduce their bf charge if all they are cutting is 2" thick material so fewer cuts? I think I'll steer this towards a bf rate rather than by the piece.

[paul case]

my customers and i always agree. price by the board ft . this lets them know how much they wil save. protects them from me not working as hard one day.
whether a 2x6 is 2''x6'' or 1.5''x5.5'' it is a 2x6 and is 1 bdft per linear ft. easy to figure against lumberyard prices that way.  dont change your price per bd ft. to give a discount , dont charge for all the bdft. cutting your price will come back to bite you. pc

[Magicman]

One slight correction on your measurement Paul.  I think that you meant:  2x6 is 2''x6'' or 1.5"X5.5" it is a 2x6.

That is also the way I operate.  Customer's choice; full sized or store bought size(dimensional) - same scale and same price per bf.  I charge the same bf price for all thicknesses, 1", 2", etc.  Some sawyers here charge 10¢ per bf more for sawing 1".

The only time I charge hourly rate is for sawing ERC or beams.

[paul case]

just checking to see if anyone is paying attention.
changed it . thanks pc

[Bibbyman]

just checking to see if anyone is paying attention.
changed it . thanks pc

I'm awake..  Attention I don't know about.  :

[sdunston]

just checking to see if anyone is paying attention.
changed it . thanks pc

I'm awake..  Attention I don't know about.  :

At .25 per bf I Can't afforn to pay attention :D

Sam

[red oaks lumber]

straight forward job like that charge by the b.f.

[Magicman]

Here are a couple of reasons that I charge hourly rate when sawing ERC.  Sometimes you get junk logs that the customer still wants sawed.



Junk



More junk.

[beenthere]

They's paneling boards....flood some pour-on poly on there and make a coffee table...... ;D ;D

[Magicman]

Or just get paid hourly rate for sawing and let the customer figure out what to do with them.   ;D

[Brucer]

When I'm sawing the customer's logs, pricing is by the board foot for lumber actually sawn (even if it's rotten junk). Customer has to help or provide a helper. Customer has to remove slabs and edgings. If I hit rot, the customer makes the call -- continue cutting (he pays) or dump the cant off the mill (no charge, but he has to take it away).

I charge the same price for timbers, 2" lumber, and 1" lumber.

I use the NLGA (National Lumber Grades Association) rules for measuring softwood lumber, and I always go over the rules with the customer before I saw.

1) 1 BF = 1' x 1' x 1", or equivalent (i.e., 144 cubic inches)
2) Width and thickness are determined by using the nominal dimension.
3) Length is rounded down to the nearest foot.
4) For material less than 1" thick, the number of board feet is equal to the width (nominal) x the length (rounded down).

There is a lot of controversy (outside of the lumber industry) about how you're supposed to calculate board feet. Rule-1 above tells you what a board foot is. Rules #2, #3, & #4 tell you how you measure it.

If a customer all 5/4 or all 6/4 rough sawn, I will use those figures as the nominal thickness (technically I don't have to). If the customer wants a mix of 5/4, 6/4, and 2" all out of the same log,  then I measure it all as nominal 2".

If the customer doesn't like the way I intend to measure BF, I show him the NLGA rule book. Then it's up to him whether he gets me or someone else to saw it.

[Magicman]

It's all about communication with the customer.  I have never been questioned about or had a disagreement with a customer regarding pricing.

[ladylake]

  Sawing by the hour sure is nice and simple and keeps things moving at a good pace.   Steve

[Chuck White]

Thanks for the replies so far. I had originally understood that charging by the bf was generally for
the finished lumber but wording in a couple of posts I read had me second guessing. Does anyone reduce their bf charge if all they are cutting is 2" thick material so fewer cuts? I think I'll steer this towards a bf rate rather than by the piece.

I've been known to saw a couple of logs and not put the lumber on the afternoon tally sheet.

I pondered giving a discount in one of my posts about a year ago and was told about the same info as in this post, it'll come back to bite you.

Other customers will hear about it and pretty soon all of your customers will want the discount!

Saw a little extra and let it slide.  Good for both parties.  8)

[Brucer]

Tom once used the phrase "leaving a nickle on the table", and I will do that some times. It's not a discount, it's giving a good customer a bit of a break. I phrase it in such a way that the customer thinks I'm only doing it for him/her. If a customer makes my life easy, then I'll "forget" to tally a few boards.

On the other hand, when a customer makes my life difficult, I'm pretty ruthless about sticking to my pricing standard.

[Tom the Sawyer]

Thanks for the replies so far. I had originally understood that charging by the bf was generally for the finished lumber but wording in a couple of posts I read had me second guessing. Does anyone reduce their bf charge if all they are cutting is 2" thick material so fewer cuts? I think I'll steer this towards a bf rate rather than by the piece.

Dave,

I am one who does reduce my bf charge for thicker lumber.  It takes somewhat fewer cuts for the same total board feet of lumber produced but the individual boards are heavier to handle so I charge progressively less per bf - to a point.  I do keep track of the thicknesses so that we can see how close the yield was to scale/estimate.  I round to the 1/4" thickness, down to the inch in width and down to the 1/2 foot on length.  I only scale the usable boards.  On boards with bark edges, if they don't want them edged I only measure the full length minimum width board.  Beams are usually by the hour but most of my production is by the bf.

Prices are in my brochure, on the price list I give them at the site visit, and on the website.  Very few questions and I haven't had any misunderstandings about the fees.  They know that they always receive more actual board feet than they pay for.