Mix at 50:1 vs Synthetic at 32:1

[Captain]

Hey guys, I appreciate all of the experience on this chainsaw forum lately.

Since I have my first serious wood modified performance saw, I was wondering if someone could explain the benefits of synthetic oils vs conventional oils, why they are typically mixed at different ratios, and what type(s) of saws would benefit (even everyday non modified saws?)?

Thanks in advance,

Captain

[slowzuki]

I know a bit about synthetics, mostly for 4 strokes:

Dino lube has a average molecule lenght for the oil.  There are both shorter and longer ones.  There are also gylcerides if I remember my chemistry.  The gylcerides for waxes at low temps and impede flow and the viscosity of the long molecules is more affected by temperature.

Other chemicals are added to control waxing and viscosity (thickness).  These chemicals get used up as the oil gets older and chemically dirtier in a 4 stroke engine.

Synthetic oils have very consistant molecule lengths, and use less chemicals to achieve properties.  In a 4 stroke this means more chemical dirtiness can occur before the properties are no good for the engine.

Both can hold about the same amount of particulates, the stuff the oil filter helps remove.

In a 2 stroke, synthetic oils should have less ash (non combustible minerals) so plugs would stay cleaner longer.  The consistant molecule length would mean more completely burned oil, the long chains in dino oil tend not to burn well and leave carbon deposits.

As for lube of crankcase, I have no clue what happens to the stuff when mixed with gas in there!  The oil needs to stick and the gas needs to go but I would have to do some reading to think of which would be better.
Ken

[CWS]

I think the molecular consistency also helps the oils ability to plate. I hope Dan or Dennis can add here. I only run Maxima K2 at 32:1 in all my saws.

[tony_marks]

  to me its like hegh level mathmatics ,,theory and such..
 i just go with what the experts say.. of course we know they say different things ,,which is to be expected.. since i dont want to go to the trouble of hunting up mobile mxt 2 ,,i just go 45-1 on my saws with stihl or echo or husky mix..next time i find mxt at auto zone.. i will get several bottles tho..and a little food coloring ..

[Blue9R]

The synthetic 2 cycle pre-mix oils have better high temperature stability and less "impurities" than a conventional dino 2 cycle oil.  Synthetics burn "cleaner" and minimize deposits on the piston and the exhaust port.

As far as the mix ratio, more oil, (4 oz for 32:1 vs 2.56 oz for 50:1), can be mixed with the gas since the synthetics will burn cleaner & smoke less.  

The 32:1 ratio for a synthetic oil is a very safe ratio.  IMHO, when the major chainsaw mfg's each decide to include a recommended ratio for a true synthetic oil, it will probably be 40:1 or 50:1.  

[jokers]

I like Mobil MX2T @ 40:1. Burns very clean and the saws I`ve torn down are slightly oily to the touch. Any of the other name brand synthetics are probably just as good, but I would never run above 50:1 regardless what the oil manufacturer suggests. There is enough empirical evidence in ruined cylinders out there to support my belief.

Russ

[Blue9R]

Mobil MX2T is an ester based synthetic oil & esters tend to naturally disolve carbon deposits in 2 stroke engines.

I collect older Homelites and my routine with any newly acquired saw is to soak the rings in MX2T. I pull the muffler & position the piston rings midway in the exhaust port.  Prop the saw up & fill the exhaust port level with MX2T. Let sit overnight and in the morning, push on the rings with a small screwdriver to pump the oil out. The amount of black oily carbon residue that comes out is truly amazing!

For best results, install an old sparkplug before soaking with MX2T and replace with a good plug before starting.

[jokers]

That`s interesting Blue9R. My findings fully support what you are saying about the MX2T dissolving carbon.

Russ

[oldsaw-addict]

Ummmmmmmmmmm can we say this in english for thos of us who didnt take chemistry in school. I dont know much about glycerides and such, they are just really high complexity structures that do something if you ask me what they do. In other word I dont understand all of this complex and comfusing chemical language. Translator!!!

[Shotgun]

Is there a "one size fits all" recommendation that could be made?  I have several cans of various mixes, one for the chain saw, one for the air blower, one for the weed wacker, etc. Any chance with the proper oil that I could just keep one mix?  If  so, what oil might that be?  My Stihl dealer told me not to keep gas-mix more than 30 days and to always use gas stableizer. That would be easier if I didn't have to have so many mixes.

[Gus]

Shotgun,
I'd really be surprised if you couldn't get by with running 32:1 synthetics in all your 2 strokes. I've run 50:1 in my saws for a long time but recently I aquired a hot saw. It was recomended that I use 32:1 synthetics in it. I've had a stihl 034 for a very long time and always mixed the fuel 50:1. I'm with you, when I mixed my gas I mixed it for the hot saw and run it in both of them. The little stihl loves it. I actually had to adjust the idle screw after a couple tanks. I think the synthetics actually loosened it up a bit.

[ricksvar]

Shotgun,

I use MX2T(40:1)in all my 2 cycles now.The trimmer,blower and all my saws.In my opinion everything runs cleaner with less carbon deposits compared to conventional 2 cycle mixes.

I just reason that as a result of EPA regulations and more restrictive mufflers carbon residue is more a problem today then in past years when regulations were not as strict.MX2T helps to eleminate that problem.

Rick

[slowzuki]

Sorry, I realized a mistake in my post.  Glycerides form (not "for") waxy type substances.  Think of or parafin wax.  Diesel is similar, it will cloud at low temps, then gel at really low temps.

I'm missing a bit in here as I can't recall my chemistry really well,  you can use lye and methanol to turn the glycerides into soap.

[Blue9R]

Gus - If you don't mind, I'm curious, what syn oil are you running in your Hotsaw?

Currently, the racing oils developed for 2 cycle motorcycles seem to be leading the pack from a technology standpoint.  And all air cooled 2 stroke engine applications are benefiting.

The new Maxima Super M pre-mix synthetic blend oil with the "orange dye" looks interesting.  Don't know what it looks like when mixed with the various tints of common brands of gas, but it has a high tech additive package.

[archerR80RT]

I have had great luck with synthetics in motorcyles, I have used Bel-Ray MC-1+ at 50:1 in motocross bikes since 1983. There is virtually no carbon buildup. The discoloration in the combustion chamber, head and exhaust wipes out with a rag. Have used this same mix in chainsaws, trimmers, lawnboy mower for a dozen years or so with good luck. By the way Blue9R, what oil do you run in that 900R?    gary

[Gus]

Blue9R,
I'm not sure what kind of synthetic oil I use. Only bought 1 quart. I remember of having a real time of it finding synthetic 2 cycle oil around here. Next time I'm in the shop I'll try to remember to look and see what kind it is.

[oldsaw-addict]

What auto store d oyou guys go to for this synthetic oil, and how much is it per quart? I'm just interested in knowing so that I can know what to expect as far as prices andwhere to get it. Thanks.

[Blue9R]

Mobil MX2T is available at Autozone stores or a Mobil dealer for about $4.00/16 oz bottle.

Maxima K2, Redline & Torco oils run $6 -$7 per 16 oz bottle.
Echo synthetic blend is similar for a 16 oz bottle.

[oldsaw-addict]

Thanks for the help, I guess a few $ more is worth it for longer engine life and fewer MAJOR problems with your equipment. I'll probably go out and get some of the Mobil MX2T oil tonight or tomorrow.