Need help with info on buying trees

[Jeremy2200]

Ive been sawing for a few months now and staying somewhat busy. I have been mainly sawing on site for people at their homes sawing their logs. I have a small stockpile of redoak logs at home but not a whole lot. My question is I had a pallet company call me today and ask about cutting lumber  for them. They dont have the trees to cut and I dont as of now. Can someone go about telling me how to buy pine trees in north MS and a ballpark price for buying them.
Thanks
Jeremy

[Magicman]

I personally have no idea about sawing pallet lumber, but did they specify "pine".

[Jeremy2200]

He did specifically ask for pine. Said he needed 5/8 x 3"- 5/8x5 and 2x4's. I have 140 acres of hardwood and pines about an hour from the house but it is family hunting land and i dont want to start cutting trees off of it. I dont mind cutting some here and there for special projects but I really would just prefer to buy them from a timber company

[redbeard]

I always have a hard time figuring out how to buy logs, Its hard to  compete with market value because big mills can beat you with volume. I base it on what i can make out of total BF from logs that are for sale and offer less than a quarter of what i will make (example if i can sell milled lumber for 1.00 BF then i will offer 200.00 MBF  scribner or doyel scale what ever is acceptable in your area. I have lost money buying logs at market value because it usually 50 percent of what i make and its like breaking even. Hope this makes sense every situation is different I know nothing about pallet stock.

[paul case]

i buy logs from time to time for cutting farm lumber, ties, and pallet lumber from. i buy them by the board foot and use the doyle scale to determine bdft per each log. the forestry forum toolbox at the bottom of the page has one and you can buy a folding rule with doyle scale on it from baileys- online(click on their logo to the right of this screen) that is $15 i think. we have lots of oak here and that is mainly what i buy. i pay $.20 if i have to pick up the logs, $.10 if i have to cut down the tree and pick up the logs and $.25 per bdft. for logs delivered to my mill.
it is imperative you know what length board you will be selling so that you can cut logs to make that without much waste. for example, if your target is 40'' boards then a 10'6'' log will make 3 of those. if you are selling 45'' or 48'' then 8' 6'' or 12'6'' work best. i cut a lot of 40'' boards so i usually cut logs 10'6'' and possibly get a tie out of the heart. the smaller logs get completely broken down into boards. these are worth less to most mills since they cannot get a tie from them, but for me i only double my log money at worst by making pallet boards. i make a lot of 5/8x3 5/8x 40 that pays $.32, but when i took some in monday i got an order for 1000 5/8x5 5/8x 45 per week for the next 5 weeks, they pay $.50 each. so it looks like i will be cutting 8's and 12's for a while.
you need to have a sharp pencil when selling pallet lumber because the folks who buy it sure do. i imagine that you would do better to find out how people in your area buy and sell logs but i bet its not much different. be carefull not to speak for a whole bunch of anything until you have put the saw through some of it.
one thing to remember is that pallets arent made from just junk, and if you sell them good boards they will probably buy a lot from you, if you sell them junk it may not last long. i have been making about 1/3 of my sawmills income form pallet boards for a couple years now. i hope this helps.

[Banjo picker]

The pallet mill here in Iuka will not buy any pine...Price is cost prohibitivie to buy logs just to cut pallet material....They got what was left after the tie came out...Thats here maybe you are doing better in your part of the state..Tim

[SwampDonkey]

Jeremy, I think you need to put pencil to paper. I think to make it work so it will be profitable, you'll need a market for the higher grades of lumber. Don't just make a pallet from nice lumber, try to market the good stuff so you can actually make money. Some fellas are more lucky than others, they get logs free or after they get paid to harvest them in urban areas. There will be too much money leaving your pockets to just tackle pallet wood from bought logs. In my opinion.

lumber profit = price of final product delivered - (logging costs + stumpage + sawing + delivery + support equipment + storage and grading)

Those outfits don't work for free, so don't discount any stage in production thinking it's doing you any favours. Only you can come up with the figures based on your production and don't figure your superman, because sooner or later you will crash. Be reasonable and level headed about your capability. ;)

[wwsjr]

Jeremy,

A frend of mine cuts SYP and builds pallets for a mfr co in Tupelo. Most of the pallet market in my area uses hardwood, oak, sweet gum, etc. A logger called me Friday called me wanting to sell a load of good SYP, he cannot find market other than pulpwood. Pulp mill will not buy large diameter logs, too big for chip & saw. I paid $36.00 a ton for a load, (28 ton) a few weeks ago for minumum 12" small end 16' logs. I pay based on scale tickets, easier that trying to scale all the logs. Most were 18" and up. Good quality, mostly butt cuts with no knots. You must have ability to unload, I have an old Prentice knuckleboom. I estimate about 7 - 8 tons will yield 1000BF sawn lumber. I figure from $250 to $300 per 1000BF doyle scale. He was logging in the Holly Springs national Forest near Ashland, not sure where he is now. If you want more info, PM me for his tel number.

Willie 

[Banjo picker]

There in lies the problem....at least for me...The pallett mill here only buys cants, down to a 4x4 as I remember....They were paying $310 th.  at the above prices if you can get a mbf out of 7 ton , which you could with a band mill and buying on Doyle...you would have $252.00 in the logs...not much there except excersise...Tim

[wwsjr]

Banjo,

I do not cut pallet material anymore. Too much hassle, can't collect, bad checks, low profit, etc. The pine I bought made some fine 2X up to 12" for framing.

[zopi]

My, (inexperienced) take is if you are a small guy..single portable mill and not much equipment to speak of...you need to stay out of volume deals, unless the price is good for high grade lumber and you have an outlet for the low grade...ie, it pays for the gas or something...you can't compete with big mills on volume...it seems our niche is custom lumber for barns, furniture, live edged and novelty items...turning stock (I will acquire a couple hundred feet of persimmon this week) figured lumber, etc...
Now, that is not an absolute..Our Bibbyman seems to have done nicely, but Mary and he have worked bloody hard for it..
Now, I know a couple of young men down in Tennessee who made pretty decent money making pallets..I don't know what the deal was, but all they were doing was jigging and nailing them....there might be some $$ to be made there, esp if you are sawing your lumber for them.

I am exploring custom horse fencing...I think there is a buck to be turned there, both in installation and repair..
Kinda thinking I may get into some novelty stuff..grape arbors for the garden market (I am a landscaper) can outlet that stuff direct or build custom..
I have an idea for a little smokehouse too...two holer outhouse on the outside, smokehouse on the inside...there are enough twisted senses of humor out there I might sell a couple...
and of course, mobile custom sawing...
But Volume on the open market...nahh.

[paul case]

jeremy,
i have been thinking about your question and what you said in the first post and i have a few questions. how did these folks find you? did they offer you good money for those odd size(pallet stock is generally 48'' or 40'') boards? did you find out the terms on which they will pay you? all the pallet mills that i deal with pay on delivery and i extend them a courtesy, that if they find some rejects in my lumber set them aside and i will take them back and replace them with good ones. i have never had one come back yet. did you get a spec on bark or wane allowance? some wont allow any and on some it dont matter.
the main thing is dont get burned. i am still real leary of those deals where you drop your lumber off for someone else to grade and wait for a check in the mail. pc

[Banjo picker]

Jeremy I looked at your second post here...wants 5/8 boards...Nearly twice as many cuts as 1 bys...I bet he will pay for 5/8 only as well...their pencil is pretty sharp as well. Tim

[west penn]

In my area it's done more on the going price. white pine and hemlock are going in the area of 9 to 11 hundred per truck load .tree length(24ft.) delivered within 30 miles. Red pine has been as low as 600. Most of the truckers and loggers know who is giving the best price and what the pulp mills are paying. I would start there by asking around.  Most usually figure a truck load of tree length should yield 4mbf or better.Make it understood that you expect a full load for the going price. There are a few amish mills in my area that cut only hemlock and they always seem to know where I can get a load of pine if I need it.