Hack and Squirt Newbie to the forum

[westkane]

I am working with a forester who gave me some Roundup for doing some Hack and Squirt.  Unfortunately he does not know what type of Roundup it was or where to get more (his boss bought it, but is not available to answer).  I need to buy some more stuff to do a bunch more land, much of it is Beech.  Can anyone point me in some directions?  I see Forestry Supplier has some pricey stuff, looking for something a bit cheaper and locally available, timber market sucks so we are having to watch cash flow, but still want to take care of our properties.  Thanks

[Shotgun]

And I'll bet the "Roundup" your forester gave you was re-packaged in a milk jug, or some other unmarked container.  That's why we have so many laws that many complain about. We do it to ourselves.

:

Norm

[beenthere]

Welcome
Go to a local ag store for some generic glyphosate.

[John Mc]

Ag stores, Home depot, etc. carry RoundUp (generic name glyphosate). They've usually got it in higher concentrations than the local hardware store.

Having never done hack and squirt, I can't tell you what concentration you'll need in order to be effective.

[WildDog]

For our eucalypts I use straight round up @ 2ml per cut. In dry times and light country these can take a bit of killing, cuts close to the ground etc, a couple of years back I bought cheap glyphosate 360 as a generic roudup, great for spraying and got a quick kill straight up with hack and squirt but it was thinner and some trees trees started to sucker the next year. Just my observation but I am back to the original "roundup". If you get Tordon over there you will find it delivers the results.

[thecfarm]

westkane,welcome to the forum. Properties? I take it you are talking some alot of acres?

[WDH]

I do not prefer roundup for hack-n-squirt.  It does not seem to be as effective on our species as tordon or garlon.  The problem is you cannot buy these without an applicator's license, I don't think.  If you use roundup, use it full strength and do not dilute it.

If you get tordon, remember that it is soil active, so keep it in the hacks and do not slop it all over the place. 

[Magicman]

Welcome westkane.  I am using 8 oz. of Arsenal mixed with 1 gallon of water with good results.  Arsenal is not a "restricted use" chemical. 

[WDH]

Given the work required and the relative low cost of the chemical, you might want to apply it full strength.  The label calls for 1 mL in each hack with hacks placed no more than 3" apart.  You only have to cut through the bark and into the cambium as the cambium is the only area that the chemical affects.  Otherwise, you are just wasting the chemical.  Here is a link to the label.  Read it for instructions on how to use arsenal for hack-n-squirt.

http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld542012.pdf

[John Mc]

A couple of you have referred to using "straight RoundUp". I'm nort sure what that means, since RoundUp is sold in varying concentrations. It's usually a blend of glyphosate and a surfactant, with some other inert ingredients.  I've never seen it in greater than 50% glyphosate concentration. I also commonly see 41% concentrations. (Both of these I only find at the Ag stores, or sometimes at Home Depot). In the hardware store, the "concentrate" I see is only 18%, and most of the "ready to use" Roundup is sold in much lower concentrations (1% to around 4 or 6%). All of these are sold as "RoundUp"

So what exactly are you referring to when you say "straight RoundUp"?

As mentioned, I've not done much hack and squirt. I have done a good bit of cut stump treatment on buckthorn, and have experimented with concentrations. The 18% hardware store concentration gives spotty results. 25% seems fairly effective, but I mostly try to stay above 30% for best results (I often just use the 40% glyphosate right out of the jug.)  I've also found the generic brands to be just as effective as RoundUp brand -- as long as the concentration of glyphosate is the same.

In Vermont, RoundUp (Glyphosate) is about the only herbicide a landowner can buy without a license (other than some of the low concentration hardware store weedkillers).

John Mc

[Bandmill Bandit]

If you have a farmer friend he will be able to get regular "tankmix ready" Roundup or one of the other copy cat brands. Monsanto's patent protection expired about 8 or 10 years ago and the price ranges any where from 6 to 12 bucks a litre/usquart. (last I paid was $7.50 about 8 months ago for a generic)

Roundup Weather MAX
Roundup Transorb HC
Roundup Ultra2

Above are the 3 formulations available right now and ultra 2 is the slightly improved version of the old standby original Round up.

Up here in Canada you need to have your legal land location to buy any of the Ag versions of the product from and Ag Chemical dealer and be sure you follow label instructions.

Just discovered that Monsanto has a Roundup Pro Concentrate that they recommend for Roadside and Utility Management. Expect this would be the product you would want to use.

[Jeff]

We buy Pronto from Tractor Supply. Their version of roundup. We use a quart per 12 gallons of water in the big tank or 6 ounces in the 2 gallon sprayer.  That mix will kill alder if you spray it when freshly cut.

[John Mc]

If any of you get the chance, can you let us know what the label says for concentration of glyphosate on these? Also, does it have other active ingredients (Triclopyr or ??)

John Mc

[Jeff]

Pronto is 41% glyphosate

[Dale Hatfield]

John
you can do a label search. for any chemical that can be bought in any % that its made.
Most local ag or Farm related stores dont have mixture for Forestry use. Your % ? for Triclopyr is a tank mixture that is used for diff applications.
Your local Soil water office, USDA will have bulletins online or in office.
If your doing this on company or for comapny owned lands, you very well need a license .  Get the books study and take the test. It will answer alot of questions you dont know about and teach you about other options .  The more you learn the better results you will have.

[WDH]

I have only used the full strength roundup, 41% glysophate.  That is what you need to use for hack-n-squirt, but again, I believe there are better options.  If you want to kill grass, roundup is wonderful, but arsenal, garlon, and tordon are better on woody plants for stump treatment or hack-n-squirt in my experience.

[thecfarm]

Jeff,I started to use that pronto stuff this year. Just could not afford the round up for just about $25-28 a quart. I bought a 2½ gallon of pronto at Tractor supply on sale for $40. Much better,works about the same from what I can tell.

[Jeff]

It's all we use. I think its the generic identical to roundup

[Norm]

I use Tordon RTU but am not sure if you need an applicators license as I already have one. I'll stop into our ag chem supplier today and ask.

[chain]

Just bought a quart of 'Round-up'-concentrate plus poison ivy mix....18% R-up +2% Triclopyr at rate of 6fl oz. per gallon water. Very long list of trees and vines, shrubs, listed for control. We aim to use it on invasive honeysuckle this winter.

But some advice on hard-to-kill species, over 6" d.b.h... might as well double-ring with chain-saw and squirt lower ring with Tordon or Arsenal, kill 'em good and dead.

[Norm]

Stopped at our local ag chem dealer and asked about Tordon RTU, he said it is not a restricted use chemical. I also asked about using round up for hack and squirt, his response was that it would not be a good choice for this use.

[Radar67]

I use 2-4-D plus a surfactant.

[customsawyer]

If you mix round up mixed with water you will want to do a full girdle of the tree. If I was going to use round up I would mix some arsenal with it as this will give you more species that you can control. If yo use the higher strength you can space the cuts up to three inches apart which will make the labor part a lot easier.

[WDH]

Given the time and work involved to hack-n-squirt, I don't see any reason not to use full strength.

[Magicman]

Or to use the very best chemical designed for Hack Squirt.

Search "hack squirt" "search in topic subjects only" and you will find a couple of threads on this subject.