Home made mill,,power feed

bedway · February 03, 2012, 11:59:21 AM

Ok, heres what im brainstorming. I would like to put power feed on my mill, not so much that i need it but love the designing and building aspect. Ive got a cast iron heavy duty transaxle from an older MTD garden tractor. It has four speeds plus reverse. Low gear is 85 to 1 ratio. I have a few electric motors setting around to power it. Im wondering if instead of using chain to move the head back and forth if rope or cable would work? I guess im thinking of how sail boats use rope wrapped around a winch type drum. Your thoughts please?

sgschwend · February 03, 2012, 12:39:58 PM

I believe the drum drive was a traditional method. That is what was on my Belsaw. A wire rope would be advisable.

scrout · February 03, 2012, 12:56:02 PM

I did the Harbor Freight $50 winch, but it is only two speed, direct line pull and double line pull, and I only have it set up to one way, then manually pull the carriage back.
Here is a capstan:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200455330_200455330
You can do a rope style like the smaller Woodmizers.
You really dont need a huge amount of force to pull the saw thru the cut, but if you want to have a board drawback, then you will need decent power.
A smaller gearmotor with variable drive would probably do pretty well.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#timing-belts/=g38yoa
I have wanted to try timing belts, dont know about sawdust fouling though.
Let us know what you come up with.

never finished · February 03, 2012, 03:04:42 PM

Check out a snapper trans.. It could give you variable speed in both directions. I think a rope could be more forgiving, ( it might even break before something more serious).

bedway · February 03, 2012, 03:50:23 PM

Funny you should mention the Snapper disc drive tranny. Years ago i had one and was very impressed with the simplicity and variable speed on it. I sold that old rider years ago, wish i still had it. It was actually my first choice but havent been able to spot one for a reasonable price.

eastberkshirecustoms · February 03, 2012, 03:51:25 PM

Hey bedway. I believe that cable (or rope) and drum should work fine. I know of a few bandmill manufactures that have used it. Breezewood and the Canadian Boardmaster come to mind. Chain is the just the preferred way of doing it now, but a gazillion circle mills over many years used the cable set up.
Have you thought of picking up a hydrostatic transaxle? That would give you infinitely variable speed in both directions.

buildthisfixthat · February 03, 2012, 05:00:53 PM

good afternoon sir anything can work for the power feed however for best performance you will need a variable speed both forward and reverse ,i have used cable for the powerfeed on my saw and does not work very well ,,i suggest using a roller link chain size #35-40 and for the gear box using a snowblower gearbox the old ariens are good for this applaction this way you have vari speed in rev-fwd and netural ,i have this on my saw and it just works perfect

never finished · February 03, 2012, 05:08:21 PM

The simplest mower ever made. I've got my eye on an old junker, I'm considering the same set up. I've seen two with the regular mower trans-axle, I think the snapper would be better. I'm leaning toward the power wheel chair set up. That way I would be right there with it. But look at my name haven't done it yet. ??? ???

paul case · February 03, 2012, 05:16:38 PM

Member Slingshot put electric feed on a norwood with parts from a hoverround or the like. He had a video of it here somewhere. Rope feed works well for WM and TK uses a cable. They both seem to work well and have their own good and bad points. Good luck. PC

snowshoveler · February 03, 2012, 06:05:34 PM

Pretty much every snowblower ever made has a friction disc drive for its transmission.
A few circle mills used a similar setup for the feed as well.
You could rob everything from a snowblower with a toasted engine or auger.
A quick look at youtube will show you what they look like.
I already checked it out myself and will do a similar setup once I get my Belsaw running.
I really like the infinate speed thing and would use hydraulics but thats another thing.
Pictures of your progress are always great.
Regards Chris

Larry · February 03, 2012, 07:06:24 PM

Quote from: bedway on February 03, 2012, 11:59:21 AM
I have a few electric motors setting around to power it.

Since your considering electric I would pick up a small 3 phase gear motor and run it off a VFD. The VFD would give your overload protection, reverse/forward, and variable speed. A chain and sprocket would put you in business. State of the art and the best part, is not too expensive if you're a good shopper.

Slingshot · February 03, 2012, 07:37:09 PM

Here is a video of the Norwood that I put power feed on using a motor and
variable speed control from an electric wheelchair. I used the rope feed similar
to the WM LT-15..... (sold the mill some time later)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImwGDHLBC_U

___________________
charles

hackberry jake · February 03, 2012, 08:26:30 PM

I am considering putting a power feed on my mill as well. I have a zero-max for the speed control and just trying to figure out how to reverse the direction easily. I was thinking of putting an operator station instead of putting it on the carraige.

bandmiller2 · February 03, 2012, 08:43:58 PM

Bedway, i used a hydraulic motor with a drum and wire cable.A needle valve adjusts the feed and a check valve in that unit allows full speed gigback.If you have the hydraulics you can use them for outher things on your mill as well.You want wire cable, rope tends to be springy and jerky. Frank C.

rockcod · February 07, 2012, 10:27:47 AM

Superwinch 2000 lb Winch in a Bag - YouTube

► 0:51► 0:51
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdvv1Q1rhGs
4 Jan 2010 - 51 sec - Uploaded by sportsmansguide
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=602170 . Do you think this would work for the power feed?

Al_Smith · February 07, 2012, 10:48:49 AM

Whatever you use I think it should be pretty much infinately variable .The variable pulley drives from a riding mower might be a option if they could be adapted .

I haven't got that far yet but my plan is a hydramotor with link chain .It would be possible with a little imagination to incorperate a board dragger to unload the prior cut on the back travel I would imagine .Perhaps expecting to back drag a 4 by 12 16 feet long though might be expecting too much though .Besides that you'd need a crane to lift it .

There's a lot of really ingenious examples on this site in addition to other portions of the net about home builds .Even factory built units .It's not like you're breaking any laws unless you infringe on somones copy rights in the event you try to manufacture mills to sell commercially .If that were the case you wouldn't be asking questions regarding same on the net in the first place .

In the crux I doubt there's any real secrets just merely older methods perhaps tried in a different method or way .

rockcod · February 07, 2012, 11:02:25 AM

Could you put a reostat switch on the super winch
to make it variable speed. it already comes with the
forward and reverse control. It has a top speed of 27
feet per minute. if you could control the speed you could
make the same set up as slingshots mill.

Al_Smith · February 07, 2012, 11:37:39 AM

The problem with that is the fact the average winch motor is a series wound DC motor just like a starter motor .Whatever goes through the field also goes through the armature .

If for example you half the voltage you only get 1/4 of the horsepower output .The speed in essence is then controlled by the load it's under .With a series reostat it would take an enormously sized one to dissipate the amount of heat it would generate under that high of amperage .

To get good speed control and constant power you about need a compound wound DC motor plus the associated control componets to operate it as such .They are cost prohibative I'm afraid is this application .

Al_Smith · February 07, 2012, 11:47:32 AM

Now let me get a leg up on the next question which will arrive sooner or later perhaps .

What might happen if say a long shafted Ford starter were used in conjuction with a variable pulley drive ??? It would overheat ,plain and simple .

Starter motors are designed for a short run type of condition .They have no cooling fins ,no fan ,nothing .They do okay on a winch but even at that have limitations .

rockcod · February 07, 2012, 02:12:30 PM

Linn lumber has a power feed kit for sale on his website.
It looks like it has a winch motor on it.

bandmiller2 · February 07, 2012, 08:39:11 PM

The cheaper winches are designed for intermitant service and I doubt they will last for the long haul.Bite the bullet and go hydraulic and have a real power system for feed and log handling. Frank C.

york · February 08, 2012, 05:09:15 AM

bedway,i have looked at your mill on another forum and ya did one heck of a mill build-as frank,is saying,go with a hyd.pump and hyd.motor-this will be keeping with sawmill machinery.....albert

sawwood · February 08, 2012, 12:28:53 PM

We have a Mark 4 Norwood Mill and i like Charles set he had on his Mark 4. I do have a question how long
did the batterys last be for needing recharging ? Is there a way to use 12 volts with a converter to run the
control and motor with out adding two batterys. There is no way of adding a belt drive alternator on the
mill. and not sure the one 12v battery will last, it is just for starting the honda motor.

Sawwood

Slingshot · February 08, 2012, 03:34:12 PM

I didn't use the mill enough for constant sawing to say just how long the
batteries would last. And I would recharge before they ran all the way down.
A 24 volt charger came with the wheelchair so I could charge both batteries
at same time. Someone told me that there IS a converter that would allow
the 24 volt control box to work on 12 volts.

______________________
Charles

rockcod · February 10, 2012, 10:10:44 AM

this is an electric hydraulic power pack that you could use for the feed and lift . Monarch Manual 3-way Valve

Pump/motor/reservoir. Externally adjust-able system relief valve. Manually operated 3-way valve with cylinder port checked. Electrical contact for synchronizing valve and motor. .250" NPTF outlet. Rod and ball handle. Suction filter. Horizontal mounting.

Flow Rates for Hydraulic Power Units
Pressure
GPM
2000 PSI
1.3
2000 PSI
1.3
2000 PSI
1.3
Power units are preset at 2500 PSI

Power UP - Gravity Down

Part Number    Description    Poly Reservoir    Weight    Price
PU5003    4-1/2" X 8"    1.36 Quarts   32 lbs.   $ 349.00

Manual 4-Way/3-Way Valve

Pump manual snow plow, motor, reservoir. Externally adjustable system relief valve. 4-way/3-way valve, banked. 4-way valve is tandem center rotary shear type with .250" NPTF outlets. 3-way valve has checked cylinder port and .250" NPTF outlet. Valve assembly is fitted with electrical contacts for synchronizing valve with motor. Rod and ball handles. Suction filter. Horizontal mounting.

Flow Rates for Hydraulic Power Units
Pressure
GPM
2000 PSI
1.3
2000 PSI
1.3
2000 PSI
1.3
Power units are preset at 2500 PSI

Power Up - Gravity Down and
Power Up _ Power Down

Part Number    Description    Reservoir    Weight    Price
PU5007    4-1/2" X 10"   1.8 Quart Poly   35 lbs   $ 408.00