How to separate a M&T 'Mailbox' practice piece

[Fred Bryant]

I have been trying to consume all the info here, to the point of being paralyzed. So, I went out, made a chisel ( only 3/4" as that is all the 1084 stock I had ), and started whacking on some PT pole barn cutoffs I acquired. Well, besides giving myself a good burn, I just frustrated myself as nothing was square and I had too much data running about in my head, with no experience, on how to deal with this.

I went down to the lumber yard and picked up two DF 6x6s that were 8' long with the idea to make a 'Mailbox' as shown in past posts. I completed the M&T joint, but not the knee brace. This went allot better. Not good by any means, as I had only the one too small chisel, no boring capability, a hammer, a framing square and a tape. It was a tight fit, but my cross peen pounded it together.

Now, it was time to move up and try the knee brace, but I could not get the M&T joint apart. The M&T was not a through joint, and I have beat on the 6x6 until it looks like a round peeler log. I guess the M&T was way to tight.

All in all, I am doing better in that allot of what I have read now makes some more sense ( I am a touch it to learn it kind of guy ).

I guess I have learned that I need to start a bit smaller, like a shed. I also need to acquire:

1) Some supervised hands on time
2) Proper materials
3) Proper Tools
4) Learn SketchUpRuby

There is a nice tool thread that can guide my purchases, but any idea of vendors for some the more specialized stuff ( slicks, boring stuff )? Also, how tight should the joints be? Any other hints would be appreciated.

Thx's, Fred ( jyblood@nwi.net )

[losttheplot]

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,47234.0.html


I am still waiting for Jim to put all his great post together into an e-book on timber framing 

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,50674.0.html

I found Jim and his partner very accommodating and knowledgeable regarding which tools you require. 

[Brian_Weekley]

Welcone Fred!

I did the same thing when I attempted my very first TF sawhorse.  :D

Don't know where you're located, but I strongly recommend taking a TF class.  Nothing helps more then hands on training with someone who actually knows what they're doing and you'll be building impressive things before you know it!

[Rooster]

Fred,

Welcome to the Family!!....and remember, "baby steps"

To seperate the joint, you should have a "commander" or "beetle" or "persuader"..which it a large wooden mallet which can weigh anywhere from 5lbs, up to and including 20lbs.  It works on the basis of inertia... "a body on motion tends to stay in motion".

If you don't have a commander yet, then find a maul and a wood block.

Stand on the beam with the tenon, place the block up against the side of the beam with the mortise in it, strike the block and drive the beam off of the tenon...switch to the other side and repeat this process until it comes loose.  Once the joint is apart you might be able to see evidence of where the joint was tight.  Go and trim those areas and dry fit again.

Check out the "sticky" thread at the top o f the thread list that covers "tools for TF"
Good luck,

Rooster

[Jim_Rogers]

A tool known as a flat bar can be used to put in the crack between the mortise shoulder and the beam shoulder to pry it apart.

But this will cause some damage to each piece, but it should work.

Thanks for the links to two very good posts.

Jim Rogers

[Brad_bb]

Welcome Fred!  I felt as if you were beating your head against a wall in the first half of your post.  At least you know enough to know that some experienced supervision will put you leaps and bounds ahead of the game.   The biggest danger with how you've approched it, is the possibility of getting discouraged and giving up.  It doesn't have to be this hard. 
   I always recommend taking a workshop.  That would be a great start.  Where do you live by the way?  You can set your location in your profile so that it shows up in each post - city, state.   As far as tools, if you're just starting, you're fine to just start with a real chisel and mallet(you need a proper wood malled for a proper framer's chisel).  With a real framer's chisel, you strike on the end of the wooden handle.  there will be a ferrule (ring) on the end to prevent splitting, but enough wood should stick out so that you are striking on the wood handle, not the ferrule.  I recommend buying tools from Jim Rogers.  Many on here and in the Timberframers Guild buy from Jim.  He sells good tools.  You also need a good framing square.  What's a good one?  Well there really are some rough ones out there, but sufficed to say you want one with good clear markings, and you want one that is actually square.  Believe it or not, not all new squares are actually square.  I use the Stainless squares made in Japan from Lee Valley tools.  Great quality, and will never rust.  You'll also need a quality tape measure, and always use the same tape throughout all your layout for a project.  We've compared tape measures in a workshop  and found as much as 1/4 inch difference in the worst.  I like a good 25'-30' Stanley, but I don't like the Fat Max.  For mortices, you can get yourself an auger bit for a drill to start off with.  Lastly, a saw like a Stanley sharptooth(about$26).  That's really all you need to get started.  I wouldn't get any more tools than that until you learn some good technique.  You don't need a slick.  You can use a framer's chisel.  Once you get that down, you can try out someone else's slick and see if it's a tool you'd like, but it's not a need.  Same goes for many other tools.  You don't need to spend a bunch of money to get started.  I bought some tools early on that I never use.  Oh, and you'll also need to learn proper technique for sharpening your tools.  It makes a big difference in performance.

[zelpatsmot]

I agree with Brad
Get the least amount of PROPER tools you need to frame, and start small.

I'm still a novice, but I started with a 1.5" sorby, a hatchet-carved firewood mallet, and a rusty handsaw.
I have slowly acquired an antique corner and 2" chisels, and a block plane. plus a few other tools.

I feel I've learned a lot with little, and I can soon graduate to a slick and perhaps a chain mortiser.

Reseach,read,study as much as you can. Sketchup is a great visualization tool for you and your potential client. As you develop further you won't rely on sketchup as much.

I use the scary-sharp method for sharpening, and It works amazing. I can't say how much easier life is with a bare forearm 

YOUTUBE: "Sandpaper Sharpening Part 1" (3 parts)
or ...
http://www.woodbutcher.net/scary.shtml
(But I should say I have very limited experience with other methods.)

Although I'm making some money from timber framing, it is still not my primary source of income.  If I jumped in head first years ago with all the fancy time-saving tools, I would bet the farm I'd be in the same position as I am now, and not as skilled.

But my dream of building my own tf home is rapidly getting closer.

[Brad_bb]

By the way Fred, if you like this board and plan to stick around, please consider helping on the forum owner's project by sending in a wood block 5.75X5.75X1.  "It can be any species, and your name, username and date or whatever applied however you wish, burnt painted, engraved, whatever but I would like to keep the species of wood identifiable."  And it gets sent to:
Jeff Brokaw
3210 Bischoff
Harrison Mi 48625

You can see pics of the project in this thread.  It's long now, but there are pics throughout.  Page 40-42 give some good pics.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,18953.0.html

[Fred Bryant]

Success! Of course there is a cut off piece sticking out of the back I could not remove, but I am going to count it successful anyway. Now to figure out how to get a picture. As suggested by Brad_bb, I contacted Collin and will be taking his class this spring. So, now on to some basice tools purchases. Well, in a pay check or two. As of now, I guess figuring out how to get SketchUp and start putting together a design.

Thx's, Fred.

[Brad_bb]

Cool Fred!  You are going to be happy learning from Collin.  You can mention that you heard about him from me on the web.  Like I said, Jim Rogers is a good place to start for tools.  His prices are good, and he will only sell you good tools.  He is a timberframer himself, so he's not going to give a tool that won't work well.

[Jim_Rogers]

Cool Fred!  You are going to be happy learning from Collin.  You can mention that you heard about him from me on the web.  Like I said, Jim Rogers is a good place to start for tools.  His prices are good, and he will only sell you good tools.  He is a timberframer himself, so he's not going to give a tool that won't work well.

Brad:
Thanks for that endorsement but I'm only half of the team. My partner Tom Perkins does the buying and restoration.
He is the man behind the curtain.

Jim Rogers

[Brad_bb]

Yes I know, but Jim, you've built trust with your customers.