When buying tie logs do you cull

[just_sawing]

I am new to cutting ties and out of the first ten ties I cut today two were not acceptable logs. One had a Hole in the center and one had a limb cavity.
I caught these as possible problems when I was measureing them. The logger isn't making a great deal one tie logs so I don't want to shoot the horse that is feeding my family but what are your practices.

[Bibbyman]

I find it impossible to get a logger who will consistently provided the logs we need to make a good product.

Our logger wanted us to go into tie making to use up his low grade logs. We did. No more than 50% of his 9' logs were acceptable to make a 7x9 tie. I sorted out one load and showed him. This one is too short, this one too small, on down the line. They didn't improve. We gave up.

We can't make money sawing ties unless we get logs that will constantly make a good tie.

[Cedarman]

Somewhere along the way, people do not treat log buyers as customers. 
I have had loggers come in and want a check immediately.  I tell them that I am the customer and if they want my money, they go by my rules. We pay on Friday for logs in by 3 on thur.  No exceptions. There are always exceptions.  If I request special favors from by logger that brings in 10,000 feet at a time and unloads with his knuckleboom, then I pay him as needed.  But exceptions are extremely rare.
If a logger doesn't like us culling his rotten logs, he can take them elsewhere.  At least we buy them.
We need to think of ourselves more as customers with the checkbook, rather than having to kiss the loggers ...
Loggers have tried to pull every trick in the book with us.  They are all about taking care of themselves.  As usual there are exceptions.  We have some good ones that we truly appreciate and work with them to the max.
A tape can shrink or stretch a little depending on how tight it is pulled.

[WH_Conley]

I have bought a lot of tie logs over the years. Figure 25-35% won't make. You can't pay tie log price for pallet logs. If you don't pay good enough or grade too hard you make the logger mad, he quits hauling, you go broke. You pay too much, you get a lot of logs, you go broke. At least with the first you don't have to work as hard. The log always will look better to the logger than the miller.

[WDH]

The log always will look better to the logger than the miller.

That was well said!

[stavebuyer]

Been on all sides of this one. Grade mills seldom pay "tie prices" for small and rougher logs. They pay flooring or pallet price and send them down the road if they have anything else worth sawing. Mills specializing in ties generally pay a premium for an 8'8"-9' log sound and straight enough to cut a good tie and downgrade to pallet/flooring prices those that won't. Some figure a straight price somewhere in between. Bottom line is that in this lumber market a log that will make a sound tie is worth probably a third more than one that won't. Expect on "loosing" a certain percentage to internal defects especially in Red Oak even in logs that appear sound. Average pricing or grading are both common and fair practices;  paying  'tie price' for very many flooring logs will put you under.

[Chuck White]

I don't buy logs, but I do cull some once in a while from my customers log pile!

If they're just to crooked, I'll pull them from the pile.

Usually the customer will ask "WHY", and understands just about the same time I get done explaining!  ;)

[Kansas]

Loggers are a fickle lot to work with. They all have their quirks. I have one that will haul in some logs on a load that should have been left in the timber. He may put an X on some of them, meaning he isn't charging me. I guess he figures we can get something out of it, or it cleans up the logging site. Problem is, that means it becomes our problem. Have one that seems to think that mixing in a bunch of small cottonwood logs is just fine. As in 10 or 11 inch diameter mixed in the load. They bring virtually no money. If we had a scragg mill, it would be different. We don't. He gets very little money for those he throws on a load, it slows us down, no one wins. The best thing that could happen for a sawmill is for a logger to spend a week working at a mill, getting explanations of why this log works and that one doesn't.

And on another note, I was told yesterday that the logger that uses our skidder, the skidder operator he has is now on America's most wanted. The odd part is, this type of stuff doesn't even faze me anymore.

[Cedarman]

A good many years ago I had a logger that was really complaining about all the logs I culled.
I took one that looked good from the ends except that it had a couple of sprinkles of rot.  Just a few dime sized spots.
I took the log, about 13" or so and sliced it in 2" increments.
Each board was sprinkled with rot making it rather worthless.
I put the "log" back together and made a trip to where the logger was.
I showed him the log ends and then laid back each slab.  He was amazed at how bad the wood was.  Never had another complaint. He just needed educated.

[Bibbyman]

Like I commented, I showed the logger logs that would not make a tie and that didn't produce any change in what came in.

I thought I would put together a booklet of pictures of logs that would not make a tie and why. But I've give up on that idea.

Mary has got to where she scales a 9' log as an 8' if it won't make a tie or beam. Mary just keeps rounding down the scale, grade and price on junk logs.

She prepares a spreadsheet report on each load with figures and note on every log. I don't even think they look at it. It's just volume and a check.

[NWP]

Kansas, maybe you can turn the Most Wanted guy in for a reward and make more money on that than those small cottonwood logs.